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Author Topic: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...  (Read 7045 times)

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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2012, 01:04:01 AM »

Well said Mongo! :)


@ EM ... no worries sis.  Stuff happens.  But thanks for clarifying. :squeezes:
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2012, 01:10:54 PM »

Ah, the reasons we love Mongo! Hubs is like that: he is a male British Witch... he is also an amature astronomer, very interested in Earth Sciences, and a UK military history buff to an extent. This is the man who has a goatman on his altar and a poster of Apollo 11 behind it. Who envokes Rhiannon at Full Moon, and hosts a scientificly-geared astronomy online radio show on Friday nights.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2012, 03:11:49 PM »

Ah, the reasons we love Mongo! Hubs is like that: he is a male British Witch... he is also an amature astronomer, very interested in Earth Sciences, and a UK military history buff to an extent. This is the man who has a goatman on his altar and a poster of Apollo 11 behind it. Who envokes Rhiannon at Full Moon, and hosts a scientificly-geared astronomy online radio show on Friday nights.

Regards to him from me personally, now that sounds cool ^^

And Mongo, seriously, whole post could be summed with the "Stop looking at the trees and see the forest." - simple and perfect for the situation. I hate it when someone thinks of those before me.
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The Divine Mrs.H

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 09:11:17 PM »

I think what it all boils down to, is that this is not the place for me. After reading around, I have discovered that it's hard for me to wrap my head around alot of it. I first started my "religious" quest down the Satanic path when I was 16. I've gone through a bunch of other ones since then, and everytime I find it's just not right, I end up at the same point. So, here I am, 12 years later, ending up at the same door. I guess I know what's right and what comes to me naturally is what I need, so, it was nice meeting you all...you're very nice, warm people. Good luck on your quests!   :loveheart:
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 11:18:28 PM »

One or two responses to a single thread that you began; in a forum dedicated to giving people with various personalities and beliefs an accepting community to go to.

And you're ready to call it quits after.. a week or two? It seems to me like you came here expecting someone to give you answers that nobody but yourself can know. When you ask a question like that in a forum like this, you are going to get several dozen responses. All will be different and distinct, and all will be accepted and considered truth to at least one person here.

You get out what you put into something. That includes forums, threads, and your spiritual path. If you keep changing paths and expecting one of them to line up perfectly with the way you feel, you will never find your "place." The key for many of us is to take what fits, take note of the things that don't, and move on with your studies. Somewhere down the line, you may find that some of the things that didn't fit before will make sense later on.


And there are several pagan belief systems that do not refer to deities AND embrace scientific theory. I suggest you look back over those 12 years of your seeking and take note of the things that struck you as truth, and build from those. But the idea  that you can't 'wrap your head around' some of the concepts that have been discussed here doesn't necessarily mean that you can't find some community here; only that those concepts haven't played a part in your path.


That being said; I hope you find what you're looking for. But the answers are probably much closer than you think.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 11:25:29 PM »

12 years and you call it quits when a bunch of strangers spill a bucket of water over your head to welcome you to the family and check out the dedication? Don't be that lady, Mrs. H

Well, worst case scenario and you do want to think over where to go for your path, do not forget us. Feel free to come back when you feel more confident, if nothing else. I am sure I speak from the name of everyone when I say that this forum is an everlasting invitation for a home.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2012, 02:00:24 AM »

I've watched some of the goings on here on the forums for the last week or so and have to say I've not been thrilled about some of it.  But with the last few responses here, I'm especially disappointed.

First, Mrs H, I want you to know that these two responses are not representative of the forum membership as a whole.  Regardless of how anyone feels about what you've said, your path is yours to follow and only you can decide what is best for you.  If you choose to leave that is your right and we wish you well.  If you decide to stick around, we will welcome your presence regardless of the path you wish to follow.  All are welcome here no matter what beliefs they hold.

Since the other admins are off snug in their beds, I am going to make a unilateral decision and deal with the last couple of responses in this thread in public.  Mainly because I think that while dealing with even mild reprimands in private may solve a particular problem, sometimes the rest of the members need to know what we expect ... and I believe that is the case here.  I'd prefer not to single folks out, but since it's blatantly obvious who said what here, I'm just gonna go with it.

All of our members were required to read and agree to the Terms Of Service (TOS) for these forums.  And while we realize that many don't bother to read the TOS, that is not something we can control.  Regardless, we expect all our members to abide by the TOS and behave in an adult manner, being respectful and polite to the other members.

I find these last two posts to be dangerously close to not only being disrespectful, but also close to flaming.  This is not the tone we want for these forums and this sort of talk will not be tolerated.  I also find it disturbing that we have members willing to join in with their friends and "gang up" on others.  I get that there are a lot of people on the web that exhibit bad behaviors and that what's been posted here is mild in comparison ... quite frankly, I don't care.  This behavior is unacceptable here and will not be tolerated.  Period.

At this point, I am strongly "suggesting" that those who have not read the TOS and About pages here do so now.  If this sort of stuff continues, we will be issuing warnings.
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Mongo

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2012, 05:02:26 AM »

I think what it all boils down to, is that this is not the place for me.

Are you certain of that? This forum exists to be a place of community for all people and all paths. We haven't seen any yet but we also want this to be a place where even Christians who want to respectfully learn and understand what we are...are also welcome. This is intended to be a place where people can learn, can understand, can discuss and politely debate, and if they do not fit neatly into the pigeon holes of the established religions can get some help in finding their own paths regardless of what that path may be.

Even if that means grabbing the machete and carving that path through the jungle themselves.

So please don't give up on us yet.

Quote
After reading around, I have discovered that it's hard for me to wrap my head around alot of it. I first started my "religious" quest down the Satanic path when I was 16. I've gone through a bunch of other ones since then, and everytime I find it's just not right, I end up at the same point. So, here I am, 12 years later, ending up at the same door.

And I was an agnostic for 20 years and I did the same thing. I would try a path and realize that it didn't make sense to me. Went to many churches, read the bible until I could quote it chapter and verse and use it to argue for the same things others were arguing against.

Nothing. Not a bit of it made sense.

Then one day I was called. I saw the rede for the first time and I saw that "An it harm none, do as thou will" fit my self defined moral and ethical structure. So I dug a little deeper and the calling grew stronger.

So don't give up on yourself yet either. It may take a while but eventually a calling may touch you. Or it may not. Just remember that in either case feel free to stick around. We don't bite...much :D

Quote
I guess I know what's right and what comes to me naturally is what I need, so, it was nice meeting you all...you're very nice, warm people. Good luck on your quests!   :loveheart:

If you still feel the need to leave then you will be missed. Please remember that you can come back at any time whether you have found your calling or not. You'll always have a place here in our little 'net community.
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The Divine Mrs.H

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2012, 11:22:00 AM »

I appreciate the warm wishes, but, I have to also apologize because I didn't mean to cause an issue. There are some on here who I might consider rude, others not at all...either way, I didn't take offence to anything anyone has said. I'm pretty thick skinned in that scence.

In my 12 years of searching for my path, I have mainly come back to Paganism and Satanism, I think mostly because there are similarities between the two.  For example, both are nature based "religions", Satanism being slightly more carnal. Also, the holidays are pretty much the same. And the most important, both share the idea of ritual and use them in the same manner for the same purpose. The difference is, Satanists don't believe in the dieties, they are thier own Gods and they control thier own fate/destiny. It's more of an emotional outpour. They are not Theistic in anyway. People who call themselves Satanists who are theistic are not satanists, they're "inverted christians" and/or heretics. True Satanism was created in the mid 1960's, before then, it was the afore mentioned.

I find both facinating and find it difficult to combine the two. In fact, I don't think it can be done.   :hairpull:
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earthmuffin

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2012, 11:52:09 AM »

I'm curious as to what you think makes them incompatible-- I confess I know very little about Satanism, but pagans are a very diverse group and there is a lot of room for different interpretations/beliefs.

I hope you will feel free to hang out here and explore as long as you like. I've been hanging around for a few years now in search of what my path may be, and while I can't say I've know what it is now to a T, I certainly understand myself much better than I did before, thanks to the help and wise words of a lot of these folks.  Sometimes I still get a bit down when I feel like I don't really fit with this or that group and bemoan that no one else really seems to understand me (I seem to be some odd combo of an agnostic scientist and a pagan hedge-witchy type person, who is only now figuring this out at mid-life), but I try to remind myself to be less goal-oriented about my spirituality and my life but to view it as a process and to be compassionate with myself. It is an illusion to think that if I only do a,b, and c and understand d, that I will suddenly be a some blissful divine endpoint where everything in my life is clear and perfect.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2012, 12:48:48 PM »

I've been a bit awol lately so am late to this discussion.  I agree with EM's last post and feel that I view my path in a very similar way.  It is still different enough to say that my views are not the same, but only similar.  It is because there are so many different Pagan paths, each having their own set of ideals and practices, that it is sometimes difficult to identify as a Pagan.  I have yet to find a label that in any way truly represents my beliefs and because of that, I also find there are many many times that I feel as if I'm a bit of an outsider looking in.  I think that is part of the process we go through when trying to find our footing.  What I believe today and how I view things are dramatically different today than they were when I first started and I am certain they will be just as different in another 5 or 10 years.  Change and growth is part of who we are as humans, so why would we not expect to see at least some of that in our spiritual beliefs?

Mrs. H, please do not feel as though the few represent the all here.  Everyone is different and has different views and opinions.  You can often find enough similarities among a group to feel "at home" even though you may not agree with even a majority of what that group says/does/believes.  Sometimes it is just the energy of the people and not even the specifics that draw you together or push you apart.  I have been rather guilty myself (lately for sure) to allow energies that I do not like or am not comfortable with to push me away from something that is otherwise a wonderful experience.  I hope that you can see past some of the uncharacteristic energies that have been flying around here recently to see a better value for you underneath all of that.  It isn't often that any energy like that sticks around for long.  ()
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2012, 12:57:58 PM »

There is a reason why this board is called Pagan Journeys.  A spiritual life is not a destination with a label, it is a journey to a better understanding of ourselves and how we fit on the universal web.  I really wish we could all get over the need for labels - but it is human nature to categorize things.

And Mrs H, a belief in oneself as god is a belief in diety IMO.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2012, 01:39:50 PM »

What is meant by seeing one's self as a god (small "G") is that one aligns their will with the divine, thus serving one's true Will. This is the goal of the Hermeticists, the Ceremonial Magicians and Thelemites. Satanists, of the LeVeyan stripe, do not acknowledge that the divine exists, and are, for all intents, Atheists, using the trappings of magic as a psychological tool. This, however, is an illusion. The LHP practitioner may not regard the Qlippothic entities he calls upon as real, but they are very real. They are extremely chaotic entities, and, once committed to that path, they will not allow one to change to the RHP.

A member of our community tried to change in just such a manner, and his LHP entities gave him an ultimatum: One or the other, which really was no choice at all, as they would destroy him if he did not choose them. It is a path fraught with peril for the practitioner, one is balanced on the edge of the proverbial razor. It is the path to madness.

The path you choose is entirely up to you, but keen thought needs to go into making such a choice.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2012, 05:55:09 PM »

What is meant by seeing one's self as a god (small "G") is that one aligns their will with the divine, thus serving one's true Will. This is the goal of the Hermeticists, the Ceremonial Magicians and Thelemites. Satanists, of the LeVeyan stripe, do not acknowledge that the divine exists, and are, for all intents, Atheists, using the trappings of magic as a psychological tool. This, however, is an illusion. The LHP practitioner may not regard the Qlippothic entities he calls upon as real, but they are very real. They are extremely chaotic entities, and, once committed to that path, they will not allow one to change to the RHP.

A member of our community tried to change in just such a manner, and his LHP entities gave him an ultimatum: One or the other, which really was no choice at all, as they would destroy him if he did not choose them. It is a path fraught with peril for the practitioner, one is balanced on the edge of the proverbial razor. It is the path to madness.

The path you choose is entirely up to you, but keen thought needs to go into making such a choice.

Yes, I also wanted to share my thoughts on the matter, but didn't want it to feel like I was attacking one path or another. I agree with Ghost Wolf, though - LHP gives little choice once chosen. Truth be told, when you are really dedicated and swear yourself to something, there is no going back, but just in RHP if you do try to call it quits, the consequences aren't that bad.
My friends look at me as spiritual adviser, and I am always honest with them - LHP is faster, LHP grants power quickly, results quickly, and feels more "real" because of that to beginners. But its price costs more than you would like to pay in long term, I am sure of that. Those of which that do lean towards LHP, I give some basic advices to, because I cannot guide them if they dive in further - I am 100 % RHP, and proud of it, despite the little dark thoughts that cloud my mind sometimes, which I know I will never make true because it is not my style, nor it will be allowed by my deities.

Stranded a little, back on track. I don't like LHP. I am honest about it, when I explain it, but I find if to be the choice of those who do not really seek enlightenment, but rather power. And they do get it, if they dive in. But as said, even if you are a good person, and like to keep it that way, the power and the urge for it is bound to get you corrupted in some point.

Here, I have quote from wikipedia that honestly explains my thoughts very well.

The difference between the right hand path and the left hand path is eloquently explained by Julius Evola in the book The Yoga of Power:

    "There is a significant difference between the two Tantric paths, that of the right hand and that of the left hand (which both are under Shiva's aegis). In the former, the adept always experiences 'someone above him', even at the highest level of realization. In the latter, 'he becomes the ultimate Sovereign' (chakravartin = worldruler)." [25]
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The Divine Mrs.H

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2012, 10:15:23 PM »

Quote
Satanists, of the LeVeyan stripe, do not acknowledge that the divine exists, and are, for all intents, Atheists, using the trappings of magic as a psychological tool.

You couldn't be more right!! There is no doubt in my mind that the LHP isn't for me. There's got to be more to me than just atheist. After doing some thinking over the pst few days, I've decided to keep going on my journey. I have been offered a stepping stone of sorts from a member here, and have taken his offer. I look forward to my journey and hope it works out. Thank you for all your warm wishes!
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2012, 11:55:14 PM »

Just a word of caution ... there is a reason we don't allow members to place their personal information on the forums here.  It's to keep everyone safe.  In the same vein, while we'd like to think all our members are honorable, just because you've met someone here does not mean they are 100% trustworthy so please be careful.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2012, 01:49:59 AM »

Just a word of caution ... there is a reason we don't allow members to place their personal information on the forums here.  It's to keep everyone safe.  In the same vein, while we'd like to think all our members are honorable, just because you've met someone here does not mean they are 100% trustworthy so please be careful.

My rule too, kind of. To get trust you must first show trust, in most cases, but it is good to be careful in what amounts you do so. Little above the average can help make a better connection, without actually risking that much. In real life, the more I feared someone isn't trustworthy, the more trust I showed to him; making him feel obligated, if we feel so, to be noble towards me. Game of chance, of course - but I believe that I could get even a criminal to be noble in his behavior towards me by showing him trust. You can always find the good in people.

Sorry for being a little off-topic, I just find showing trust first to always to achieve the best results.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 06:29:25 AM »

I prefer to exercise a little caution myself.  There are things that go bump in the night and one often needs time to ferret them out.  One must remember that many Pagans are trained to alter their reality using will which sometimes leads to unhealthy manipulation of others.  It is not a simple thing to figure out how they apply ethics to their personal practice, especially online.
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The Divine Mrs.H

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2012, 12:34:58 PM »

Points taken!  :D I will proceed with caution.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2012, 01:43:58 PM »

Just a side note... I have been doing a bit of research and came across pantheistic paganism. Are any here like this? Or familiar with pantheism?
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2012, 04:50:06 PM »

I am somewhat familiar with it.  But it is not my path.  It is relatively common in Native American spirituality I believe.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2012, 05:43:51 PM »

Yeah, I read that as well.
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2012, 08:27:06 PM »

It's the idea that God is the universe and everything in the universe. That is basically what I believe. I think I am safe in saying that many or even most shamanistic cultures would also qualify as pantheist. They are animistic, believing that every object is inhabited by spirit, which is understood to be a reflection of the larger whole. But as I understand the distinction between the two, one does not have to be an animist to be a pantheist. In other words, you might not believe that rocks have a spirit consciousness or soul but still believe that the universe and everything in it is God or an expression thereof. Neo-pagans pantheists are likely to be those folks who follow a shamanic path or atheist biologist types who revere nature (which is all of the macro-biologists at least-- that is why they go into that field even if they don't see it as spirituality ;)).
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"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." The Dalai Lama

The Divine Mrs.H

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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2012, 09:01:00 AM »

Quote
one does not have to be an animist to be a pantheist.

You're very right. I read about animistic people/philosophy, and I couldn't latch onto that idea. My mom on the other hand apologizes to her coffee cups for not choosing them in the morning. lol  :rotflmao:

I saw an article on Pantheistic Pagans and it was really good! As soon as I read it, it was clear to me what my path was. Basicly, the author wrote something like, Pantheistic Pagans are "scientifically athiest", (for lack of a better word), but become Pagan because they, as humans, need that element of ritual/ceremony in their lives. (not to mention the attachment to nature) Perfect! I have never heard a more perfect discription of me!  :cheer:
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Re: Questions, Questions, and more Questions...
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2012, 09:47:53 AM »

 :cheer:  Glad you are finding your path, Mrs H!
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"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." The Dalai Lama
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