Pagan Journeys
General Topics => General Chat => Topic started by: vordan on January 04, 2011, 09:59:31 PM
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This is getting really widespread does anybody have any thoughts on this? At first it was in one area but new mass bird deaths and fish kills keep occurring.
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Chemtrails?
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It's hard to speculate without sounding like a conspiracy theorist. :whistle: About all I can say for certain right now is that 1) there isn't any way it is some sort of bacteria or virus and 2) we will likely never know the truth. My guess? It's either some corporation's special project (Monsanto's headquarters are near the first occurrences) or some branch of the government is testing something strange.
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...or some branch of the government is testing something strange.
Hence the chemtrails... :whistle:
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The James Randi Skeptics Forum has this intriguing theory:
Ok what we have is a flock of diurnal birds that habitually roost in large flocks and which were found dead in town.
We also have reports of a storm system moving through the area and heavy booming noises.
A short lived tornado runs through a small un-populated (by people) area and these roosting birds get drawn up into the storm could where they get pummeled into each other and thrown around by the high winds. They are also at an altitude they do not normally go to and may suffocate of at least be unconscious. The storm moves on weakening and the birds finally drop out of the sky and are found in the morning.
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Which sounds somewhat plausible for the birds, but doesn't account for the 100,000 fish (of a single species only) that suddenly all died a day or two before just a few miles away ... storms do not change the water conditions enough to account for that. ;)
BTW, that is the same line the "officials" are using based on necropsy results of "blunt force trauma" ... but ignoring (or at least not mentioning) that the injuries could have been from hitting the ground.
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Actually some reports did state that they were uncertain if the blunt force trauma was what killed them or was simply them hitting the ground.
The birds is a simple one to speculate on. The storm theory is the most plausible and meets my "Go for the simple answer first" way of thinking (since the simplest answer is usually the one).
My personal theory is that one of those birds pooped on some Bishop's car and he asked God to smite them. :D
The "single species of fish only" fish kill on the other hand is more of a PITA to figure out. That is not normal in fish. What causes a fish kill in one, *usually* kills other species as well.
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The "single species of fish only" fish kill on the other hand is more of a PITA to figure out. That is not normal in fish. What causes a fish kill in one, *usually* kills other species as well.
If the single species has a narrower band of tolerance for something like temperature, pH, or environmental factors, it makes sense that a limited change in that (a couple of degrees increase or decrease, a couple points more acidic or alkaline) would affect that species and not other species that have a wider tolerance. With as screwy as the weather has been lately, it's a thought.
Saw on the news this morning that there's a fish kill in Chesapeake Bay that they're thinking is cold-related:
http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=13786220
And there's a higher percentage of manatee deaths due to cold waters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/29/manatees-swarm-to-power-p_n_802410.html
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See? Power plants are helping wildlife. Take that environuts!
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I think it's all weather related.
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I don't have any ideas on the cause but I find it VERY concerning.
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If the single species has a narrower band of tolerance for something like temperature, pH, or environmental factors, it makes sense that a limited change in that (a couple of degrees increase or decrease, a couple points more acidic or alkaline) would affect that species and not other species that have a wider tolerance. With as screwy as the weather has been lately, it's a thought.
Problem is, the fish do not likely have a narrow tolerance since they are indigenous to a large number of states in the US (from Texas to Wisconsin). I don't have time to look up their stats right now, but having keep tropical fish for over 20 years, this one sounds to me like some sort of poison is responsible.
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Why would a poison only effect one species?
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IDK ... may be they are the only fish near the source. I only mentioned poison because it is highly unlikely that much else would affect so many fish so rapidly. It could also be something that reduced the oxygen content in the water enough that it only affected them, but I have a hard time believing that a fish as hardy as a freshwater drum fish would be affected before other fish were. It's really weird.
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I agree. Any fish species in a given body of water will have their tolerances adjusted for that body of water. Just as my fish are living at a higher than normal PH for their species (@#$%ing well water) and have gotten used to it and in fact are thriving. Anything that changes the environmental water should kill off more than one species.
Even if the other species are more tolerant of it, the sudden change is more likely to kill them. This is why Crystal Dragon and many other of my trusted sources of fishy lore inform me that as long as my fish are happy at their slightly higher than tolerance PH, leave them alone.
And even if you were to say that one species of fish is more tolerant than another, there should be some of the smaller and weaker members of that species getting killed off as well as the targeted species.
As for poison, I'm doubting that since again there is only one fish species showing up as dead. Especially considering that the reverse is often true. That the Freshwater Drum Fish is often one of the few surviving species left after a spill or other contamination.
The only thing that I can think of that could and frequently does target one species in an environment is some sort of disease be it parasitic, fungal, bacterial, or viral. And that can tie in with the cold since a change in the environment can cause a slight weakness in the fish (not enough to kill them normally) that an infection/infestation can exploit.
The birds could due to the cold. The species hit are normally warmer weather birds who winter in areas that are normally warmer than they have had this past month. God knows it got bitterly cold here in Southern Maryland, an area that normally I survive the winters by wearing a hoodie most of the time as we rarely go below 40.
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I think Mongo's on to something about disease/parasite susceptability. There are quite a number of germs and micro-organisms that are seasonal and/or weather reactive... I learned this a few years ago when I was hospitalized for a severe histamine reaction. I was tested for 160 alergens (which involves drawing a huge grid on your back and poking each square with needles. no fun at all.) Turns out I'm alergic to some germs that almost everyone gets infected with several times a year- the symptoms are so mild that you never even realise you're sick... unless you're alergic- then you have to take antihistamines for a month when they flare up. Anyway, my point is that there can be sudden and surprise infections, and germs do mutate- the drumfish might have suffered something equivalent to a human flu epidemic, and germs can be quite species-specific. Just my theory.
peace,
ES
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Sounds as plausible as any.
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What interests me is that the fish kills are happening in other areas of the world also..
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It's a precursor warning for 2012.
Either that or it's Obama's fault (they seem to enjoy blaming him for everything from healthcare to hangnails these days).
:D
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Either that or it's Obama's fault (they seem to enjoy blaming him for everything from healthcare to hangnails these days).
:D
You mean... it's not his fault? :puppyeye:
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:rotflmao:
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What interests me is that the fish kills are happening in other areas of the world also..
It's aliens, man. :vulcan:
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:rotflmao:
The problem with the disease/parasite theory us that all the fish died within a few hours of each other. That never happens with bugs ... you may see all the fish die, but some have stronger immune systems (just like people) and it would take days, not hours, for the die-off. However, if a lab created bug were introduced, one that the fish had never been exposed to, a quicker die off might be expected. This is where the Monsanto connection adds suspicion ... they are currently working on GMO (genetically modified organisms) stuff and frequently bacteria are involved in the process as they are used as a "delivery mechanism" for the genetic modifications.
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It's the beginnings of the Zombie Apocalypse! Umbrella Corporation! Stock up on ammo, spam and liquor!
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Have I mentioned how much I DETEST Monsato?
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It's the beginnings of the Zombie Apocalypse! Umbrella Corporation! Stock up on ammo, spam and liquor!
:rotflmao: But I detest Spam ... can I stock up on tuna instead? :whistle:
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It's the beginnings of the Zombie Apocalypse! Umbrella Corporation! Stock up on ammo, spam and liquor!
:rotflmao: But I detest Spam ... can I stock up on tuna instead? :whistle:
Tuna smells too much like brains, Draws in the zombies.
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Have I mentioned how much I DETEST Monsato?
It's the Umbrella Corp., I'm tellin' ya'! They are just in disguise...
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I guess we better all don our Alice boots and get ready to kick some Zombie butt.
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:rotflmao: I love the Resident Evil movies! :D
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Curiouser and curiousier... Victoria river turns green http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/12/30/victoria-river-mysteriously-turns-bright-green/
Thousands Of Fish Dead In Spruce Creek http://www.wftv.com/news/26367953/detail.html Dead birds in Sweden killed by 'external blows' http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/01/05/sweden.bird.deaths/index.html?hpt=T2 Google map of mass animal deaths http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=201817256339889828327.0004991bca25af104a22b
peace,
ES
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Now I'm intrigued!
So those birds died of some kind of trauma which in turn caused internal bleeding. Which seems to coincide with the american results so far that has been released. So I wonder what they all ran into
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So those birds died of some kind of trauma which in turn caused internal bleeding. Which seems to coincide with the american results so far that has been released. So I wonder what they all ran into
I'm thinking Wonder Woman was flying her plane a little too low and didn't see the birds.
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Works for me. That would make the fish kills Aquaman's fault, then?
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Works for me. That would make the fish kills Aquaman's fault, then?
No doubt. Or, it's all Obama's fault. :whistle:
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This reminds me of one of the Harry Dresden stories, when he's talking about the lengths people go to to avoid believing in magic. "It's raining frogs, and they tell us a water spout sucked them out of a pond- a water spout that doesn't suck up fish and crawdads and water lillies... Hell, magic is easier to believe in than that."
peace,
ES
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Vision is psychic. I was flipping through the channels and caught Glenn Beck talking about the bird kills and the green river water. He said "They must have been hit by Wonderwoman's invisible plane." :rotflmao:
Edited to fix my boo-boo. :whistle:
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:rotflmao:
Psst ... I think it was Vision that said that. ;)
I'd be intersted to see a plot of the jet stream overlaid on that map ES found. Oh, and I can't help but wonder in the case of the birds, if maybe magnetic pole orientations had something to do with it. :whistle:
So those birds died of some kind of trauma which in turn caused internal bleeding. Which seems to coincide with the american results so far that has been released. So I wonder what they all ran into
Problem is, they can't tell when the "trauma" was experienced ... it's important to know if it was before or after they hit the ground. If it's after, something else caused them to fall in the first place. ;)
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Psst ... I think it was Vision that said that. ;)
You're right! Sorry dude. :whistle:
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and frequently bacteria are involved in the process as they are used as a "delivery mechanism" for the genetic modifications.
Bacterial infections usually harm the host by the waste byproducts created by the bacteria or as a side effect of the body going to war against the invading organism.
Bacteria don't target DNA.
Viruses on the other hand are designed from the ground up to invade a cell and re-write the cell's genetic code in order to get the cell to stop its normal function and start churning out more copies of the virus.
Which is why re-coded viruses are used for genetic manipulation. We can take out the destructive payload of the virus and implant a new genetic sequence which will then be released into a body where it will invade cells and make the changes to the DNA.
For example if a person had a genetic inability to create a certain hormone or protein need for some function, you could insert a virus encoded with the corrected genetic code for that hormone or protein...thus fixing the problem.
Bacteria are not used in that manner.
Bacteria however *are* frequently used as the cells that get modified. Nova-log insulin is made by vats of bacteria that have been genetically re-encoded by viruses to produce the same insulin as our own pancreas does.
Not saying that it couldn't be a released bacteria or an escaped virus from Monsanto, just that Bacteria aren't used in the re-programming of genetic data.
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I don't think we will ever know for sure.
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OK ... here's a new theory. Phosgene gas. I ran across this in one of the blogs I occasionally read: http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/fracking-arkansas/
Oh, Mongo dear, I bow to your awesomeness and appreciate the correction. :bow:
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Got this from Shari Lynn the owner of The Silver Branch our Metaphysical Store here in town.
http://deadlinelive.info/2011/01/04/did-haarp-kill-thousands-of-birds-and-fish-simultaneously-across-country-secret-government-testing-suspected/
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1344913/Animal-death-mystery-8k-turtle-doves-fall-dead-Italy-blue-stain-beaks.html
peace,
ES
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Even if we find out what killed the fish and birds, we still won't know what did it. It's an irony of the information age that too much information leaves us in the same place as not enough information. Many theories are as unenlightening as none. It is very odd.
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Apparently there was a mass die-off of menhaden at one of our local beaches last week as well. Enough to cover a mile-and-a-half of beach and need shovels and earth-moving equipment to clean up.
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I heard on the radio there were some bird deaths near the 101 (where they did not say) in Cali. It hasn't made it up on google maps yet.
I wouldn't be surprised if most of these events are related to gas/chemicals from the BP oil spill. Birds have very sensitive lungs and fish have sensitive gills.
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It was near Geyserville (Sonoma County). One of the Bay Area stations is reporting that they ran into a semi truck.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/26457715/detail.html
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NPR sure had no details whatsoever-- pretty irresponsible reporting. Interesting that people are paying such close attention to any dead bird now. There has to be way more interest than when corvids were really biting the dust from West Nile Virus a few years ago. I don't remember hearing much about dead birds then.
I got myself too freaked out last night looking up info about the BP spill and dioxin (a carcinogenic chemical that bioaccumulates and results from the burning of hydrocarbons). Our neighbor illegally burns trash in a burn barrel and that will produce it too. No wonder I don't listen to the news any more. :rolleye:
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110121/ts_yblog_thelookout/usda-admits-role-in-large-bird-kill
Break out the tinfoil hats and look out for black helicopters... where the government is involved, all bets are off...
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Got my hat ready ... :whistle:
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http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/27/arkansas.bird.mystery/index.html?hpt=T2
"The tests ruled out bacteria, viruses, heavy metals, pesticides and avicides (chemicals used to kill birds) as causes of death," the commission said in a statement.
The tests revealed hemorrhaging "consistent with blunt trauma," according to the report released Wednesday. "In most instances, such traumatic injuries in wild birds are due to flying into stationary objects such as trees, houses, windows, power lines, towers, etc."
Which leads me to ask...what in the name of Zeus's posing pouch hit several thousand birds?
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I find it interesting that they don't mention chemical compounds simpler than pesticides or avicides. :whistle:
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The tests revealed hemorrhaging "consistent with blunt trauma," according to the report released Wednesday. "In most instances, such traumatic injuries in wild birds are due to flying into stationary objects such as trees, houses, windows, power lines, towers, etc."
Which leads me to ask...what in the name of Zeus's posing pouch hit several thousand birds?
I'm telling you - they ran into the mother ship! :D
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I though we established it was Wonder Woman's invisible airplane. Even Glenn Beck concurred! :D
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I got myself too freaked out last night looking up info about the BP spill and dioxin (a carcinogenic chemical that bioaccumulates and results from the burning of hydrocarbons). Our neighbor illegally burns trash in a burn barrel and that will produce it too. No wonder I don't listen to the news any more. :rolleye:
Good old dioxin, my father used burn barrels and also banned herbicides and pesticides that contained dioxin. I believe some of the ashes even ended up in the vegetable garden right next to the burn barrel. Nobody in my family has reached retirement age falling to a wide assortment of common and uncommon cancers. Dioxin the gift that keeps on giving. My last remaining sister now has stage 4 brain cancer and that will leave only one person left alive. We often poison ourselves and the world around us in our innocence and ignorance.
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Vordan, that's horrible. :grouphug:
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Vordan, that's horrible. :grouphug:
Indeed it is.