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Author Topic: Confusion  (Read 8996 times)

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EarthenWanderer

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Confusion
« on: March 03, 2010, 02:58:13 PM »

Sorry if it is in the wrong place, after reading board titles, it seemed the most relevant forum. Also hi again, if anyone remembers me :)

I've had a slight Christian upbringing, living in England has that affect but it is an atheist household, this is the viewpoint which I have held for most of my life, this is also where my difficulty lies. I don't know if I do or if I do not want to believe in something or not, the atheist in me says that the whole God(s/ess/esses) thing is not real; after reading parts of the bible, I am scared of what is in it. This leads me back to Wicca/Paganism, as I have felt more comfortable here, but that still doesn't mean I can't get past the atheist barrier. I did manage to do so once before, but convinced myself otherwise.

I think more or less, is that I would like to believe that there is something greater than me, that there is something more than what I see on this Earth, but I am having a hard time to do so - can anyone help me with this, or am I stuck?
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BronwynWolf

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 03:48:54 PM »

Those types of changes have to come from within, EW...And you have years and years of conditioning to get past.
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Eternal Seeker

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 04:20:07 PM »


I can't give you the answer, because any such possible answer must come from within- but I can give you points to ponder.

To begin with, the critical importance of belief is an Abrahamic concept, not a Pagan one. To the ancient Pagans- Rome, say, or Greece- behavior was important, not belief. Religions are, among other things, a way of life. The gods and theology were an explanation of why this lifestyle or behavior worked, why it obtained results. They weren't wedded to any specific part of it... if it were discovered that the world was not the center of the universe, then they would adjust the myths to cover that fact, rather than denying it and persecuting the discoverer as the Catholic church did. The creation story that had the Earth being flat was their best guess, not a dogma.

To them, the proof of the pudding was not the depth of your belief, but if the behaviors your belief inspired actually worked, actually resulted in a better life. If it did, then obviously your beliefs were true, or at least true enough in essence. I discuss something like that in my blog here: http://cuumbaya.blogspot.com/2008/09/of-symbols-and-chaos-magic.html

Another point- a true atheist never says "there is no god". What they say is, "I see no evidence to convince me that there is a god". Neither the existence or the non-existence of god, gods, and goddesses can be proven; we have to go with where the evidence takes us. One must weigh what evidence one has. I have had experiences that convince me of the reality of the divine- but my evidence is non-transferrable; I cannot give another my experiences. And so the atheist, not having my evidence comes to a different conclusion- and I cannot fault him for that.

My best advice is to start with a credo- a list of the things you can feel comfortable in saying that you believe right now. It doesn't have to include a diety, if you're not sure- this is a list of things you're pretty sure of. Then create a covenant of behaviors, a lifestyle drawn from those beliefs. I describe the process here: http://cuumbaya.blogspot.com/2006/06/my-musings-on-moral-authority.html  Then live that life- and you'll find out fairly soon how good those beliefs are. You may have new revelations that add to the credo; you may remove some things current there- but either way, have a reason for their addition or subtraction.

I'll close with one of my own beliefs, one of those things I cannot prove, but absolutely believe, in hopes that it will help you in your search: The Divine is not small or petty- if I make myself worthy of this reality, I need not fear the next one.

peace,
ES
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 08:14:25 PM »

 :bow:  Awesome reply ES!  And EW, listen to ES ... I certainly couldn't have put it better, or more eloquently, than he has.  :D
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earthmuffin

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »

I hear ya, EW. I had a similar upbringing and still have challenges despite having had a spiritual epiphany and experienced things that would indicate there is something to what mystics of all religions have been saying all these years.

As usual, I agree with ES. The existence (or non-existance) of God(s) (assuming we could clearly define for ourselves what God is) may be impossible to prove but, as far as I can tell, no one has seriously tried to apply science to answer that question because they don't know how. The closest people have come is through noetic sciences, which don't tackle the God question directly. So I'd have to say atheism is based largely on a belief rather than on evidence or lack thereof.

Even if you based your belief completely on your personal observations and you thought you had found no evidence to support a belief in God, coming from a purely atheist or agnostic viewpoint, would you ever be able to have those? What I mean by that is, I think one must be at least be truly open to the possibility of an experience of God in one's life in order to see something as an expression of the divine. It is extremely easy to write off most supernatural (for lack of a better word) experience with a "scientific" explanation though no science is actually being applied to test anything.

My advice would to ask yourself why you feel you need to believe in God if you do. What purpose does it serve? And conversely, if you feel a need to believe there is no evidence for God, what purpose does that serve you? And then compare the two and decide which standpoint does you more good. Because I think what you really are doing is trying to decide which belief system is a better fit for you.
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bluefire

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 09:11:41 PM »

Good question and good answers.  For myself, I choose to believe that the Divine exists.  It is more of a decision than a firm belief.  I focus on what I can DO about that:  to live the best life I can live.  I do wish that I firmly believed, though.  The best I can do is stay open to the possibility.
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EarthenWanderer

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Re: Confusion
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2010, 01:24:01 PM »

Thank you for the replies, it has given me a great deal to think about. After wandering around the great meta-library of Wikipedia I've discovered pantheism which seems to reconcile what I loved about Wicca (the observing and love of nature and the universe) and my atheist/agnostic stance, in regards to what God is. I can quite happily sit with God being a pseudo-metaphor for nature.
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