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Author Topic: Schools and Theft  (Read 7643 times)

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Fox

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Schools and Theft
« on: September 05, 2012, 08:23:59 PM »

I'm just curious if anyone knows or has opinions on what schools do/should do when it is discovered that a student has stolen property/money from another student or even a teacher.  Our district apparently cannot tell the other parents involved who was involved or what the punishment was, but I am kind of wondering if, when you are talking about out and out theft, that it isn't something that the police should have been involved with, especially when the have the theft on video.  Granted we are talking about a student stealing $20 out of my son's glasses case that fell out of his backpack in gym, but theft of any kind is a huge deal.  I was just kind of wondering what is the standard around the country.
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BronwynWolf

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 08:59:45 PM »

Around here, it seems to vary according to district, school, what was stolen, and who is believed.
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earthmuffin

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 10:13:02 PM »

I suppose there are very good reasons for confidentiality regarding minors, but I think it works against teaching kids what is right and wrong and does nothing to make parents of kids who are victims of crime in schools feel their kids are safe or that the school is dealing with problems, when schools keep everything so hush-hush.

I went to a private school where theft and other serious infringements were dealt with fairly publicly, and I think that part of the reason the school had very little of that behavior going on was because of the guilt and shame that kids would feel when others found out about their actions. Not that they were being purposefully shamed by anyone, but the knowledge that everyone would know was a big disincentive for them. In contrast, I don't think my kids' school district does much at all about investigating thefts, thefts seem to be commonplace, and I have no idea if there are any consequences at all to students if they are caught. As you know, my kids had to go to school with a youth that committed serious crimes involving our property and cruelty to animals, and I was powerless to find out any information about that student or the status of the case against him. It was awful to feel that a criminal received greater protection than the innocent victims of the crime, and really my only recourse seemed to be to pull my kids from the school. Fortunately, it didn't come down to that, but it just seems like something is wrong with a system when that is how it works. Yes, police probably should be involved but I'm not sure you would get any more satisfaction in knowing it has been dealt with if you involved police. With our problem, the cops were initially helpful but once it went to court, we couldn't get any more information out of anyone. I think your best bet, if you want access to that sort of information, is to become friend with a teacher or teacher's aid and get the information off the record.
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Tirya

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 10:21:35 PM »

If the records aren't sealed by the court, they should be publicly available with a Freedom of Information Act request, I would think? Or does that only apply to the media?
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 10:32:27 PM »

One might be able to request something like that through FOIA, but I'd bet they redact all names and other important info.  :stormy:

Me?  Cynical?  Of course not, why do you ask?  :whistle:
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earthmuffin

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 11:54:04 PM »

FOIA only applies to the federal government so I don't think you'd get anywhere with a county court or local school district.
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Fox

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 12:13:34 AM »

According to the school, it is district policy and as long as the discipline is handled "in house", I think it is their right to do that, unfortunately.
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rainshadow

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 04:31:34 AM »

You also have to consider the minor protection laws in the state you're in. Kids will talk, and I'm sure you'll hear it through the grapevine (back in my day, if we did something wrong, the other parent would have a talk with our parents immediately, it wasn't really handled by the school so much) on who did it, but it all depends on the school's policy concerning their punishment. There's only so much information you can get on juveniles criminally, academically, etc. I had a hell of a time with it when I was a cop and trying to get information about someone under the age of 17 (especially if their records were expunged/sealed). In my opinion, the police SHOULD have been contacted, given they had the theft on video, but it's all up to the school and their protocol. That being said, you could take this further as a parent and go to your lawyer, but I'm not sure what they would be able to do to help you. I had a friend in high school who was a kleptomaniac and ended up stealing from her employer (it was a pair of $15 earrings they caught her with), she spent one night in jail and then did some community service and her record was expunged after that.

I got into a fight in high school with my brother's girlfriend. The principal gave me three days of in-school suspension and gave her three days out of school suspension (she was known as a big trouble maker). He said he should have filed assault charges on my end because of the severity of her injuries, but he didn't and it never went any further than that. My parents gave me the lecture of a lifetime when I got home, grounded me for a while, but that was the extent of it.

Is it something you want to press charges with? I believe in that case, the school HAS to release the information to you. And if they won't give it to you, I'd contact your lawyer.
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Claude

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 10:52:16 PM »

Well seeing as how I just got my phone stolen from my book bag today I'd like to see the school suspend the person who did it and the police fine them. I think a 1-2 week suspension and a $50-$100 dollar fine would suffice. I'd also like to burn their house down but that's just out of the question sadly. 
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diniesaur

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2012, 11:29:29 AM »

Schools aren't going to be fair, especially to students they dislike. My schools, however, spoke with parents of students with whom I had conflicts regularly--sometimes, they'd go ahead and punish me for supposed offenses as soon as parents notified them, even when I hadn't actually done those things. I don't know...I hate to hear about unfairness in school because it reminds me of my experiences. Teachers are way too hasty with punishments for the students they dislike (and believe me, they DO play favorites) and too lenient on students they like, sometimes even letting them go free. Overly angry parents are no help either. (And this isn't directed at you, Fox.)

Fox, what grade is your son in? Because I can completely understand if it's just elementary school--kids that young shouldn't have to be exposed and shamed so much for something like that. Regardless, I feel like in the long run it's best for everyone if you don't know who the student was because it may color your feelings about the kid later and cause a lot of anguish, but I do believe you should at least get to know the punishment.

Claude, a suspension that long just for stealing a phone? Are you sure? I think you may be a little heated right now. I'm not sure if it's one of those fancy smartphones or a regular one, but either way it's way too strict. A student isn't likely to be able to afford a fine like that anyway, and even if their parents can afford it, it's generally not the parents' fault. ("Hey, little Johny, I want you to steal a phone today!") And I don't know how your school does suspension, but even I, who've been unfairly discriminated against in school (one teacher sent me to ISS for picking my nose...when I hadn't actually picked my nose...) have never gotten suspended for that long, even for more serious offenses.
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earthmuffin

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2012, 11:04:35 PM »

I don't know if its an issue of fairness so much as there being no way for parents to tell if discipline is fair or not because it is kept so private. Where are the checks and balances on the school system?  :confused:
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Fox

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 12:13:49 PM »

I'm with EM.  When the school refuses to share what, if even any, disciplinary actions have been taken with the parents, it is beyond frustrating.  I have also seen the effects of favoritism in the schools and is why I don't like this policy.  It is too easy to allow students to get away with breaking the rules and being bullies when it is hidden behind the guise of privacy.  I have mixed feelings about revealing the identity of the children involved, but not about sharing the form of discipline.  In my son's case (he is in 8th grade), I've been told they have the theft on video so there is absolutely no doubt as to the other kid involved or that he did indeed take the money.  I kind of feel like the school's stance is more about CYA than it is about protecting the kids.  It is a way to downplay any issues within the school to make themselves look better and it also prevents other students from understanding the consequences when events like this happen and they are kept quiet.
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Tirya

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2012, 01:21:46 PM »

That's the problem I would have with releasing NO information - it desn't serve as a deterret to others. Even something as generic as "Money was stolen, it was caught on video, and the student responsible has been suspended for XX days and has repaid the money" would let kids know that actions have consequences.
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Ghost Wolf

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2012, 08:29:12 PM »

If their parents had been raising the little barbarians properly, they would already know that there are consequences for their actions. Unfortunately, we know this is often not the case.
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2012, 11:57:47 PM »

If their parents had been raising the little barbarians properly, they would already know that there are consequences for their actions. Unfortunately, we know this is often not the case.

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Fox

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2012, 12:26:02 AM »

Yes and no.  If they see no enforcement of rules within the schools, that can easily undermine what they are taught at home, especially with the large amount of time kids spend in school.  The school environment is just as much of a factor in forming how children perceive right and wrong as is the home environment.  Even it if is only a lesson in that they can get away with things in school that they cannot get away with at home.
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Schools and Theft
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2012, 12:42:41 AM »

Possibly, but that really depends on the kid.  I know my daughter was convinced that I had psychic powers and would just know if she did anything wrong ... regardless of what might happen if school officials found out.  ;)
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