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Author Topic: Personal Objects Used in Spells  (Read 31704 times)

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BronwynWolf

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2013, 07:47:50 AM »

Quote
But then I also don't think preachiness and moralizing have any benefit except to the people agreeing with each other, if an open discussion about the matter isn't the goal of the conversation.

Moonshine, care to define what you mean by this statement?

Sure. :) If the person raising the concern isn't willing to discuss side issues raised in a thread, then all that will happen is that people agreeing its bad and/or people agreeing its good will pat each other on the back and keep on agreeing with each other . . . but probably won't put any extra thought into the subject. I think we should make a separate thread for ethics and the evolution there of. :) It would be a very good discussion to have.

We do have a separate area for discussing ethics. HOwever, there are times when it ends up relevant to answering any given thread, and it comes up again.
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crystal wolfstar

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2013, 05:16:26 PM »

Magical ethics are the same as regular ethics, IMHO.

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2013, 08:14:43 PM »

Magical ethics are the same as regular ethics, IMHO.

They should be, you would think. Trust me when I say, if they always are... some people we have seen come through these halls don't seem to have them.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2013, 08:20:57 PM »

I would agree that ethics are ethics.  However, in this instance the OP was requesting information on how to direct magical intent to someone over the internet.  Some of us have witnessed people trying to hurt others magically because they got butthurt on the web.  I think that the people he was asking the question of have a right to evaluate whether the information would be used ethically or not and to judge whether we wanted to help him in that endeavor. 
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2013, 03:46:22 AM »

We not only have a right, we have an obligation to make sure that what ever information we provide can/will not be used to harm another.  If you hand someone a gun and they kill another person, aren't you also responsible? 
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crystal wolfstar

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2013, 10:02:47 AM »

I find that with these (and most other) situations, the safeguards are built in.

In cases of internet butthurt, there's usually no way of getting the necessary things like a full name, much less hair, nails, or body fluids, as demonstrated in this thread.

Even with the actual name and an actual picture of the person printed off the net, chances are slim that it would be enough to do anything, else every little girl who googled a love spell would be married to Justin Bieber.  :rotflmao:

And all of this information is easily googled anyway, you're not preventing the person from attempting the spell by withholding the info. Even the former secrets of the Masons are online. There's enough free info out there to throw any kind of magic you want. There's catches, though. For this stuff, you need personal concerns. For Tibetan, you might need to prepare with 100 million mantras. Magic is WORK. It's actually easier to get off your butt and fix things in the mundane. ;)
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2013, 12:34:13 PM »

In cases of internet butthurt, there's usually no way of getting the necessary things like a full name, much less hair, nails, or body fluids, as demonstrated in this thread.

True enough for one who is new or doesn't spend the time to do the work.  Not necessarily true for folks who know what they are doing.


And all of this information is easily googled anyway, you're not preventing the person from attempting the spell by withholding the info. Even the former secrets of the Masons are online. There's enough free info out there to throw any kind of magic you want.

Disagree ... there is enough information on the net for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to get themselves in trouble.  But not enough information (or not the correct information - the internet is full of bad/wrong info) to be effective.

But you're missing the point.  Part of the reason this forum exists is to guide those who need to be nudged in the right direction and those who would be considered elders in the community step up and provide that guidance.  Like other forums we tend to get people join who want "quick fixes" for their problems (real or perceived) but they don't usually stick around long once they realize those "quick fixes" aren't here.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 12:36:22 PM by Crystal Dragon »
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2013, 04:28:30 PM »

Part of being an adult is having the freedom and autonomy to make mistakes on your own.

There's a mindset these days - and I'm not pointing the finger here, I'm saying this in a very broad sense that encompasses the polical arena, national affairs, etc. - that people need to be supervised for their own safety. It's essentially a smokescreen for privacy violations, exploitation and loss of freedom.

"Dangerous" magic tends to be coercive magic, in most cases. In the wrong hands, it tends to do nothing. In some cases it does seem to backfire.

When I was five, my parents allowed me to bloody my knees learning to ride a bike. They were correct in doing this, I think, even though I was very young. I would certainly never deny an adult that level of autonomy.

Maybe it's my DNA (four Revolutionary War soldiers, etc.) but I tend to be very leery of controlling behaviors. If someone asks me what I think of something on an ethical level, I might sermonize, but if they ask for simple information, I provide it. It's their call what they do with it.


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dragonspring

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2013, 04:44:12 PM »

Maybe it's my DNA (four Revolutionary War soldiers, etc.) but I tend to be very leery of controlling behaviors. If someone asks me what I think of something on an ethical level, I might sermonize, but if they ask for simple information, I provide it. It's their call what they do with it.
It is your right to act in whatever manner you see fit, just as it is others' right to ask questions before volunteering information that is better learned through experience.  I fail to see how refusing to spoon feed someone is "controlling behavior". 
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2013, 04:53:14 PM »

For what it's worth, if someone were  asking for information about the most painless and effective way to commit suicide, I wouldn't be giving them that, either, even though the only person they wanted to harm was themselves.
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Moonshine Thistlewish

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2013, 05:10:15 PM »

I agree that magical and mundane ethics are more or less the same. My line of interest lies in how each individual person defines their own sense of ethics.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2013, 05:34:17 PM »

What do people think of the idea of doing some sort of general blessing without necessarily having consent? (Like health, happiness, prosperity, etc) I have done this, and I liken it to praying for someone. Maybe I should not do this?

As for using email addresses and the like, you might just find that certain powers might just block that tenuous a connection.

Be Blessed!
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2013, 06:55:02 PM »

What do people think of the idea of doing some sort of general blessing without necessarily having consent? (Like health, happiness, prosperity, etc) I have done this, and I liken it to praying for someone. Maybe I should not do this?
How do you feel when a Christian says "I will pray for you"?  I try to accept their good will in the spirit it is given but it still kind of bothers me.  I would think that some people might be uncomfortable accepting energy from a witch.  Usually when I send good energy to people without their knowledge (such as the victims of a natural disaster), I will send out general well wish energy with the caveat that they can access it if they choose to do so.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2013, 08:06:59 PM »

Maybe it's my DNA (four Revolutionary War soldiers, etc.) but I tend to be very leery of controlling behaviors. If someone asks me what I think of something on an ethical level, I might sermonize, but if they ask for simple information, I provide it. It's their call what they do with it.
It is your right to act in whatever manner you see fit, just as it is others' right to ask questions before volunteering information that is better learned through experience.  I fail to see how refusing to spoon feed someone is "controlling behavior".

What I'm seeing in this thread isn't so much people saying "I don't choose to share that information with you", but rather, attempting to tell Claude NOT to do it, which can be perceived as controlling behavior.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2013, 08:31:59 PM »

What I'm seeing in this thread isn't so much people saying "I don't choose to share that information with you", but rather, attempting to tell Claude NOT to do it, which can be perceived as controlling behavior.
I can see how you might have perceived that.  I see people asking for the OP's intent and people expressing their own opinions on the ethics of doing spell work without the subject's knowledge.  I don't believe that we have come to a level of political correctness here that would require people to keep their opinions to themselves, nor do I see that happening in the near future.  This is, after all, a discussion board and censoring the opinions of members who are not being disrespectful is a bit too controlling for free discussion IMO.
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holyfool

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2013, 08:52:51 PM »

We not only have a right, we have an obligation to make sure that what ever information we provide can/will not be used to harm another.  If you hand someone a gun and they kill another person, aren't you also responsible?

Only if we had known it would be used to murder. 

What do people think of the idea of doing some sort of general blessing without necessarily having consent? (Like health, happiness, prosperity, etc) I have done this, and I liken it to praying for someone. Maybe I should not do this?

It creeps me out when someone says, I'll pray for you.
...My response might be, "Ill pray for you too. Guess which god."
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crystal wolfstar

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2013, 10:14:28 PM »

What I'm seeing in this thread isn't so much people saying "I don't choose to share that information with you", but rather, attempting to tell Claude NOT to do it, which can be perceived as controlling behavior.
I can see how you might have perceived that.  I see people asking for the OP's intent and people expressing their own opinions on the ethics of doing spell work without the subject's knowledge.  I don't believe that we have come to a level of political correctness here that would require people to keep their opinions to themselves, nor do I see that happening in the near future.  This is, after all, a discussion board and censoring the opinions of members who are not being disrespectful is a bit too controlling for free discussion IMO.

I do like the "not censoring" policy. As long as it's applied with an even hand, it's preferable.

It creeps me out when someone says, I'll pray for you.
...My response might be, "Ill pray for you too. Guess which god."

Personally, I wouldn't say that to someone nice enough to offer prayer in a crisis.
OTOH, it's PERFECT for LDS types.  :crazylaugh:
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2013, 11:02:22 PM »

We not only have a right, we have an obligation to make sure that what ever information we provide can/will not be used to harm another.  If you hand someone a gun and they kill another person, aren't you also responsible?

No.  A person's actions are their own.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2013, 11:10:27 PM »

Maybe it's my DNA (four Revolutionary War soldiers, etc.) but I tend to be very leery of controlling behaviors. If someone asks me what I think of something on an ethical level, I might sermonize, but if they ask for simple information, I provide it. It's their call what they do with it.
It is your right to act in whatever manner you see fit, just as it is others' right to ask questions before volunteering information that is better learned through experience.  I fail to see how refusing to spoon feed someone is "controlling behavior".

This is correct.  If all you are doing is withholding information that you possess, then there is no censorship.

Not allowing others to share information IS censorship.  However, this is not the government, it is a privately run message board, and therefore the people posting on it must either agree to the terms of service of the board, or go elsewhere, at least for the information in question.

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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2013, 11:13:01 PM »

We not only have a right, we have an obligation to make sure that what ever information we provide can/will not be used to harm another.  If you hand someone a gun and they kill another person, aren't you also responsible?

Only if we had known it would be used to murder. 


In a legal sense, you are correct.  This would be accessory before the fact.  However, on an ethical level, the burden of guilt is not shared.  Even a soldier receiving an unethical order is held responsible if he obeys it, as was demonstrated by the Nuremberg trials (despite the fact that the USA has recently decided otherwise, with regard to activities at Abu Graib and Camp X-Ray).
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2013, 11:49:15 PM »

I'm going to ignore the ethics behind this topic and address the actual question. I do agree with the others on the ethics of the matter and let's leave it at that. Others have echoed my thoughts on the matter and so I have nothing to add to that.

The problem with using a phone number is that no one owns their phone number. That's something owned by the phone company. In the case of a landline the number is a code that tells the switching computers to route a call to that number to phone line circuit umptyscrunch.

This is why you can (depending on your company's service options) forward a call to another number if you're going to be away. The call doesn't go to your phone and then bounces back to the other number, the call gets redirected at the switching computer to the new location.

With a cell phone it's similar. The switching computer gets a call to a number and the computer looks up the cell phone identifier code attached to that number and sends it to there. This is why you can get a new phone every now and again and still have the same number. The computer gets the update that 123-456-789-012 is no longer associated to that number and that now 210-987-654-321 is.

With an email, it's similar.

When I was working at a small computer store in New Jersey, we had our own Web Hosting service. We owned the equipment that our web page was attached to AND the email server was running on. So in that case if you were to have sent a spell (good, bad, or indifferent) you would have had a better chance of targeting him since it was in all sense of the word, HIS email. owner.bosspants@computerstore.com was totally his and with his attachment to the servers (in which he put as much of himself into the servers as he did the rest of his business) had a strong connection.

Certainly the server seemed to have his stubborn streak. I could never get the updates installed without getting errors...only he could.

But that's the very rare exception to the rule. Most people have their email hosted on someone else's equipment and only log in and have their client software politely ask if it may download the messages.

Think Oliver Twist asking "Please sir? May I have another?"

Or in the case of webmail, it's you asking politely if you may look at what's in your mailbox.

And with the case that an email message is bounced from computer to computer to computer...that address touches a multitude of equipment. Heck, for me to get to my gmail account I'm an 11-machine hop according to my traceroute app.

So if you were to try to send a spell (good, bad or indifferent) you're more likely to either have it bleem out into nowhere...or may target people who have more close ties with the email or number than the person you're trying to target.

It's one of those things that's both very personal and yet at the same time as impersonal as one can get.

A fair analogy would be to try to target me with energy by using Nintendo Wii as a focus. Sure it's *mine* but I don't use it that much since my children and their friends use it far more often than I do. So if anyone were to try to target me with that as a focus...odds are I'm not going to be hit. More likely to hit one of my children or their friends my mistake.

And that's where I put in my one bit of ethics. If one can not be sure of the target, then that person is as irresponsible as a person shooting at a firing range without making sure that the range is clear before pulling the trigger.

And just as responsible for any consequences.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2013, 05:42:05 AM »

What I'm seeing in this thread isn't so much people saying "I don't choose to share that information with you", but rather, attempting to tell Claude NOT to do it, which can be perceived as controlling behavior.
I can see how you might have perceived that.  I see people asking for the OP's intent and people expressing their own opinions on the ethics of doing spell work without the subject's knowledge.  I don't believe that we have come to a level of political correctness here that would require people to keep their opinions to themselves, nor do I see that happening in the near future.  This is, after all, a discussion board and censoring the opinions of members who are not being disrespectful is a bit too controlling for free discussion IMO.

I do like the "not censoring" policy. As long as it's applied with an even hand, it's preferable.

It creeps me out when someone says, I'll pray for you.
...My response might be, "Ill pray for you too. Guess which god."

Personally, I wouldn't say that to someone nice enough to offer prayer in a crisis.
OTOH, it's PERFECT for LDS types.  :crazylaugh:
Oh...yep...
If they were trying to be kind, I'd just bite my tongue, but that's not usually why they say it to me.
Mostly it's folks who want to save my heathen self from the fires of hell to get brownie points with Jesus.


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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2013, 12:06:36 PM »

It creeps me out when someone says, I'll pray for you.
...My response might be, "Ill pray for you too. Guess which god."

Personally, I wouldn't say that to someone nice enough to offer prayer in a crisis.
OTOH, it's PERFECT for LDS types.  :crazylaugh:

Are you suggesting that individuals who belong to LDS aren't capable of being kind?  I have a number of friends in LDS and have never had any of them offer to pray for me ... in fact, they are more accepting of my beliefs than friends who are Christian. 
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »

It creeps me out when someone says, I'll pray for you.
...My response might be, "Ill pray for you too. Guess which god."

Personally, I wouldn't say that to someone nice enough to offer prayer in a crisis.
OTOH, it's PERFECT for LDS types.  :crazylaugh:

Are you suggesting that individuals who belong to LDS aren't capable of being kind?  I have a number of friends in LDS and have never had any of them offer to pray for me ... in fact, they are more accepting of my beliefs than friends who are Christian.

While I have met people in the LDS who were very nice, the fact remains that they are members of a religious organization that actively opposes basic rights for 5-10% of the population.  As such, though I hold no particular ill-will toward them, I prefer not to associate with them in any meaningful way.
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Re: Personal Objects Used in Spells
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2013, 04:45:51 PM »

We not only have a right, we have an obligation to make sure that what ever information we provide can/will not be used to harm another.  If you hand someone a gun and they kill another person, aren't you also responsible?

Only if we had known it would be used to murder. 

So, you think if a stranger asks you for a weapon and you just hand one to him/her without asking why they need it ... and they go off and kill someone that you're not at all, not even partially responsible? 
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