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Author Topic: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.  (Read 5459 times)

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diniesaur

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2011, 09:20:28 PM »

Thanks for the advice! I can definitely understand your point about teaching minors; I can see how an adult could take advantage of a minor, especially a disabled one like me.

You are right, Tirya. I will not avoid researching the traditions, and I will learn from them, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything they say.

All of you have helped me a lot. Thanks!
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Ghost Wolf

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2011, 11:55:38 AM »

As to formal training, a minor does not yet have the emotional stability to be able to handle certain things, so would end up not so well off mentally.
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vordan

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2011, 01:32:25 PM »

There is something a Christian and pagan might agree on, is that lessons and teachers surround you. I love several of the Christian Psalms and here is one which speaks of this.

" 1.The heavens are telling the glory of God, and the firmament proclaims his handiwork.
   2. Day to day pours forth speech and night to night proclaims knowledge"

Psalm19


"We are part of nature as a whole who's nature we follow."
                                                                  Spinoza

"I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station, through which God speaks to us every hour if we will only tune in."
                                                                     George Washington Carver

"I believe in God, only I spell it Nature."
                                                                 Frank Lloyd Wright

" Look deep into nature and then you will understand everything better"
                                                                  Albert Einstein


Lessons are found in spider webs, flowers, sunsets and the call of the Mourning Dove.
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diniesaur

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2011, 01:35:25 PM »

What are these certain things? I want to know because although I will be eighteen next year, because of my disability I may have a younger emotional age than my physical and mental ages. I have the experience of someone my age, but depending what these certain things are, I may want to wait a little longer than a year to find a teacher.

That's a good idea, vordan--I will look for learning that doesn't necessarily have to come from a person. It makes so much sense; I learn academic things very easily even without a person. Maybe I don't need a person to teach me what I can learn on my own.
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Fox

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2011, 01:40:12 PM »

Maybe I don't need a person to teach me what I can learn on my own.

Very wise words and so very, very true.
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dragonspring

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2011, 05:17:41 PM »

I agree.  My advice would be that you will know when you are ready for formal training.  If you have any misgivings at all, stop and listen to your inner voice.  Until then, learn from nature and from books and from asking questions and whatever other means you can think of.
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diniesaur

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2011, 11:24:37 AM »

Thanks, everyone! I just ordered a bunch of books suggested in the reading lists on here, and they've been shipped. I'm so excited!
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earthmuffin

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2011, 10:06:17 PM »

 :cheer:
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Mongo

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2011, 11:16:36 PM »

As to formal training, a minor does not yet have the emotional stability to be able to handle certain things, so would end up not so well off mentally.

I would debate that.

Turning 18 does not magically flip on the "Mr. Mature" switch in someone's brain. I've seen some 16 year old children with more sense and maturity than some in their 20's. My own daughter by the time she was 17 had her plans for college, her plans to go to college and find an apartment with her boyfriend (now fiance) and had between all the birthday money, Christmas money, savings from her part time job, plus what her boyfriend had managed to save...went to college with $4,000 and a notebook thick enough to put my BOS to shame filled with plans, backup plans, and backup plans for the backup plans.

She went out there, found a home, her boyfriend found a job 5 minutes walking distance from the home and she is currently tracking to the Dean's List with her lowest two grades being a very high "B"

That said, I do understand the point about teaching minors to an extent. I would never teach some random minor who comes off of the street since that just opens a whole 'nother can of worms that we don't want to have opened. However saying that a minor does not have the maturity to be formally taught is to me at least a disservice to Pagan and Wiccan Parents who would be far better judges of whether or not their children are ready for greater involvement in their religion.
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Zlat

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2011, 11:38:24 PM »

I would (to a point) agree with you, Mongo. On the whole maturity being a subjective phenomenon.

With diniesaur however... She has already stated that her emotional progression isn't on the same level as the standard for her age range would be expected; although her intelligence level is beyond that standard. So in this particular case, I would take all that into account with the minor v. adult thing.

Personally, I couldn't care one way or another since I don't mentor anymore and the closest thing I ever had to a mentor was a rosicrucian grandmaster buddy that invited me over for dinner a couple times a year when I was living in the UK. And even then, most of what we talked about had to do with the Lord of the Rings series and snails.  :rotflmao:
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earthmuffin

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2011, 12:06:13 AM »

I would guess the rules about not teaching minors has more to do with legal reasons than ethical ones.
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Zlat

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2011, 12:13:26 AM »

That too  :D

Just my two cents anyway. :)
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Mongo

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2011, 04:42:16 AM »

With diniesaur however... She has already stated that her emotional progression isn't on the same level as the standard for her age range would be expected; although her intelligence level is beyond that standard. So in this particular case, I would take all that into account with the minor v. adult thing.

Granted, but what I was remarking about was the blanket statement of the maturity levels of a person bases solely on age. You don't get the magical "Age of Consent" Fairy flitting down to whack upside the head with her maturity wand simply because you managed to survive to a specific calendar date.

And I did point out that I would not try and formally train a child that I didn't have consent from their parents and/or legal guardians AND I didn't get the warm fuzzies about their emotional level of maturity.

Hell there is a 30 year old that her immaturity makes me want to stop moving and pray that her vision (like the fictional T-Rex in the Jurassic Park Movies) was based on movement. She is so "fluffy" that she makes the typical "Fluffy Bunny Witches" look like they're taking it seriously she is that bad. And to my dismay she thinks I'm the "bestest person on the whole planet" (her words, not mine <shudder>) to teach her.

So in the case of diniesaur, being self admitted to being a little behind maturity wise (not that I am judging, everyone matures at different rates and we can not and should not try to force someone to do/be something that they are not ready to be), I would not take her on as a student. What I would suggest is what I suggest to anyone. Get some books and read, read, , read and read some more.

Besides as I stated in another thread, being well secure with yourself and your own relationship with the Divine helps cushion you if/when you run into Pagans who will look down on you because they're buttheads, you're different than them, and they can. Being comfortable with yourself and with the Divine means that when they do be mean, you can just say "Stuff it!" to them and go home and fire up your own altar.

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dragonspring

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2011, 08:15:02 AM »

However saying that a minor does not have the maturity to be formally taught is to me at least a disservice to Pagan and Wiccan Parents who would be far better judges of whether or not their children are ready for greater involvement in their religion.
I have to challenge the assumption that all Pagan and Wiccan parents exercise good judgement in this area based on my own observations. 
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Ghost Wolf

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2011, 11:03:26 AM »

However saying that a minor does not have the maturity to be formally taught is to me at least a disservice to Pagan and Wiccan Parents who would be far better judges of whether or not their children are ready for greater involvement in their religion.
I have to challenge the assumption that all Pagan and Wiccan parents exercise good judgement in this area based on my own observations.

:yeahthat:
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Zlat

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2011, 02:32:30 PM »

Quote
Granted, but what I was remarking about was the blanket statement of the maturity levels of a person bases solely on age. You don't get the magical "Age of Consent" Fairy flitting down to whack upside the head with her maturity wand simply because you managed to survive to a specific calendar date.

Yep, I know. Just making a point for future readers :)  :2cents:

Quote
Hell there is a 30 year old that her immaturity makes me want to stop moving and pray that her vision (like the fictional T-Rex in the Jurassic Park Movies) was based on movement. She is so "fluffy" that she makes the typical "Fluffy Bunny Witches" look like they're taking it seriously she is that bad. And to my dismay she thinks I'm the "bestest person on the whole planet" (her words, not mine <shudder>) to teach her.

And that is just downright scary...  :hiding:
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diniesaur

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2011, 06:44:27 PM »

I can see those points. I think it would be a good idea for me to become secure in my beliefs before trying to meet people I don't know who might be mean. It's confusing; apparently I seem very mature to some people and others can see my childishness. I was worried when someone said that minors might not be able to deal with what happens when people teach them because I have heard that some of the older traditions believe that teachers should have sex with their students, and I don't want to do that. I was worried that that was more common than I thought.

I did order six books, and I'm reading them now. They're exciting! I am also trying to learn by meditating and appreciating nature and things like that. It's hard to get time to meditate and read because of college, but I'm working on it. :)
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BronwynWolf

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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2011, 07:21:49 PM »

ANY sex magic is between two CONSENTING ADULTS.. and if ANYONE tries to tell you differently, RUN, do not walk, the other way and report it to authorities or just another adult pagan who can deal with it.
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Re: I've been a beginner for a long time--I would like guidance.
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2011, 02:17:08 PM »

What I was referring to wasn't sex magic but the same principal applies.  There is shadow work involved in degreed training that could be psychologically and emotionally damaging to someone who is not ready.
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