Pagan Journeys > Paths and Traditions
Why I don't consider Wicca a shamanic religion.
Rovay:
--- Quote from: Ghost Wolf on February 02, 2012, 02:04:41 PM ---Muffin would have to explain it. I don't understand it myself.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that. ^
earthmuffin:
I think Rovay us talking about being "called" by the spirits but also about initiation. The calling happens for most shamans, but not necessarily all. Some native shamans are initiated into shamanism because of their family lines (father was a shaman). But most are called, which usually involves something very traumatic like a period of mental or physical illness or near-death experience during which one gets an inkling that there are spirits that want you to follow a certain path. One may be healed of whatever the illness was at that time by spirits. The shamanic initiation usually happens later, when the newbie shaman has started along the path. The initiation as I understand it happens during a shamanic journey, in which the shaman experiences death and often complete dismemberment in the otherworld. I don't know about a specific question being asked and answered per se. That perhaps is a feature of some cultures, but not necessarily the same with all. I think for many shamans there really is not a choice offered-- you either get the message and follow the path you were meant to follow or you suffer more and more physical and/or emotional problems that either direct you back to that path or kill you. I suppose the choice is you either get it or you fight it and be miserable or succumb to the illness. It is a feature characteristic to shamanism but I didn't list it because Wiccans could find their path along similar lines-- the proverbial giant cluex4 whacking you upside the head repeatedly-- though usually the physical illness is not a component for Wiccans and some Wiccans are initiated by other Wiccans rather than by spirits.
For the record, I consider myself more of an agnostic than atheist, and at this point, I don't feel I have the right to call myself shaman. Shamanic practitioner is a better descriptor. I'm still trying to figure it all out. ;)
Ghost Wolf:
Wiccans are always initiated by other Wiccans, male to female, female to male. Spirit initiation is not a part of Wicca. Nor can one initiate one's self. ;)
earthmuffin:
I realize that is the traditional viewpoint, GW, but it ignores the fact that there are many solitary "self-initiated" Wiccans out there. Scott Cunningham, widely respected and beloved Wiccan author, describes self-initiation rituals in several of his books. He describes the God/Goddess as being the entities passing power to the initiate instead of the High Priestess/Priest. By his definition, then, a solitary Wiccan initiatory rite could be considered similar to (but obviously not the same as) a shamanic initiation.
Rovay:
Yeah, thanks EM, I was trying to explain "the Call" but I was kind of inadequate yesterday. You explained it the way I wanted to, though, so thanks. But yeah, that is why I meant when I said "destined" when it comes to Wicca and stuff, you do get whacked in the head with signs too, but I think shamanism has a more unique call.
And I thought Wicca can be practiced solo, from what I read?
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