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Why I don't consider Wicca a shamanic religion.

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--- Quote from: earthmuffin on February 03, 2012, 01:52:11 PM ---A mystical conversion might be similar. There is also spontaneous kundalini awakening, which some describe as being similar in some respects. Then there's being abducted by aliens and sent back down to earth to teach the alien religion... (I'm getting silly now in case that wasn't obvious).

--- End quote ---

Obviously was, and I find it funny. Yet, I do think I should end my part in this conversation for tonight, because I actually wrote "don't sounds better", and now have the desire to shoot myself. I have the feeling that ever since I came to the conclusion that it'd be a good career move to become an English teacher, I'm making dumber and dumber typos...


--- Quote from: Ghost Wolf on February 03, 2012, 01:00:17 PM ---An initiation is a passing down of lineage. That is why one can not self initiate.

--- End quote ---

OK, so I have a question here that I'm a little hesitant to ask: no matter which way I'm trying to phrase it, it's coming across as rude or confrontational, yikes!  :hairpull:

I'm just going to go ahead and ask it, and heavily disclaim that I only ask out of honest curiosity. It isn't meant to hurt or rile anyone up- incredibly sorry if that's what I end up doing anyway.

From what I know, an initiation into a Wiccan coven is about lineage, like GW points out: so in very practical terms, being initiated into a Gardnerian coven (for example) would mean getting access to the Gardnerian way of doing things, the BoS's and rituals and so on....outsiders would not have access to the same materials or training. (In fact, a time honoured way of making sure that only initiates knew the full details of a ritual or system was to deliberately mess up a few details in publications meant for the general masses)

So from this specific knowledge, the initiate would get the privilege to call himself/herself a "Gardnerian Wiccan".

My question is this:  would you say there are observable differences between the "skill sets" of people who are initiated properly into a wiccan trad versus the ones who come from a wiccan-like path but aren't actually initiated. In the context of energy work, I mean.

Edited to add: I realised while typing this that I'm making the basic mistake a lot of folks make, in that I'm assuming all wiccans necessarily practice Wicca for the witchcraft.  :whistle: Regardless, I'll let my post stand anyway. :)

I guess what GW said corresponds exactly with the sacred thread ceremony of Bramhin hindus; so I'm trying to make sense of that through this context.

Hi, T! Wow, you have dredged up an old one here.  :whistle:  I think the only people who could answer this would be those initiated into a traditional Wiccan coven and I am not sure there are very many here who can lay that claim.

But I would hazard a guess that yes, there would be a difference in the skill set because the traditional Wiccan initiate would have access to specific training the solitary would not. That's not to say the solitary could not get possibly comparable energetic training or experience through different sources such as study with a tai chi, reiki master, yogi, or other such mentor, or even just through their own experience of trying different things. I think that in any discipline, secular or spiritual, it is quite possible for some to achieve very high levels of competency through years of self-teaching. Having an experience person or group of people to train you, of course, takes a more direct route to the same end.

Eternal Seeker:

Yes, there would be a difference in *GARDENERIAN* skill sets, or whichever tradition the initiation is in. Not necessarily in magic skills, or or meditation skills, or any other such specific instance- but if you're not initiated into the mysteries, you're not a (fill in the blank).


I have been initiated into two formal paths. Initiation is the work you do to learn about a specific path and remake yourself as a spiritually practicing human. The ritual is a celebration of what you have already done. It provides a reason for further training and a hope that you will learn the mysteries of that path. I didn't have access to the covens BoS until I reached the third degree but I had learned a great deal about the path and the way to practice. As for energy work, it is taught as you progress in your own growth. An initiate does very little energy work outside the circle or other group work. Learning to recognize energy and manipulate it are lessons given at the latter stages of the second degree work.

The above was true in the mystery tradition I first initiated into. It was not a Wiccan path but I believe that in Wicca the mysteries are revealed slowly throughout your learning process culminating in your third degree ceremony.


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