Pagan Journeys

Pagan Journeys => Beginner's Chat => Topic started by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 01:08:38 PM

Title: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 01:08:38 PM
I have noticed one consistency in my study of the pagan "sects*"  that use magick. Circle casting during spells/rituals/cleansings/etc. I vaguely, from what I read, understand that circle casting creates a "sacred" space. An almost spot light effect for the deity to hone in on you while you are doing your magickal workings. I might be wrong here, but I also understand a circle as a way to concentrate magickal workings to make the effects stronger - I could be wrong there though.

Okay, now the reason I'm creating this post: For a pantheist like me, who feels everything is divine and there is no "deity" per se, and that my energy (magick) is pulled from the Universe and the environment around me, how is casting a circle effective? Would that not be counterproductive? Wouldn't casting a circle block the energy from coming to me from my surroundings?

I realize that not everything that pertains to the magickal community will pertain to me, but I'm just concerned that if I do not perform something that is so uh...consistently performed in the magickal community that my workings will not be effective. (Not that I'm anywhere near comfortable yet, still learning)

*I know "sect" has a negative connotation, but its the best word I know to describe individual groups under the same umbrella religion. Sorry...no offense meant!
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: dragonspring on November 15, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
The main reason for circle casting besides creating sacred space is to keep out undesirable energies and entities.  The circle does not block anything that should be in there or that you invite in. 
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 02:24:54 PM
The main reason for circle casting besides creating sacred space is to keep out undesirable energies and entities.  The circle does not block anything that should be in there or that you invite in.

If everything is sacred or if all is divine is there any such thing as an "undesirable"? Could I not use its energy to my advantage as well? Does it not have its place? Am I making any sense what-so-ever?  :gaah:
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: BronwynWolf on November 15, 2011, 03:00:22 PM
YOu are making sense, BUT... no, not all energy or entities are desirable or positive or easily worked with. I don't usually cast a circle if I am working on my home turf because I have the entire property warded. All things may be divine... but that doesn't make them all positive OR pro-human. Especially when you are first starting out, err on the side of safety.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 15, 2011, 03:02:58 PM
Everything is sacred and everything is divine... that doesn't necessarily mean that everything is helpful or useful for a given work.

For example, chamomile might be great if you're doing something that requires you to be calm and relaxed, but it would not be appropriate to use in a working where you need to be alert and awake. Lemon or ginger would be better for that. Could you use chamomile? Sure. It wouldn't be as effective, though. For that particular work, chamomile is undesirable.

Let's say you have a whole bunch of loose herbs floating around. It would be easier to take the ones you need and put them in the tea ball, rather than throw everything in it and then try to pull out the ones you don't need after the tea has started brewing.

Another analogy - if you're in the library and trying to study with a group, is it easier for you to focus and get things done when there are only the few of you who are involved in the project, or when there's a kindergarten class running around you, coming up to see what you're doing, pestering you and looking over your shoulder? The children aren't "undesirable" in general, in the right situation with the right purpose. But in this situation, it would be better if they were kept away from what you were doing so you could focus on your project instead of having to worry about them.

Just my $0.02.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 15, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
*I know "sect" has a negative connotation, but its the best word I know to describe individual groups under the same umbrella religion. Sorry...no offense meant!

:) For what it's worth, "traditions" or "denominations" might work better than "sect".
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 03:32:44 PM
Tirya - Thank you so much, for both responses. You definitely put it into perspective.

I guess my next question is, how do you respectfully deny entrance? I'd hate to tick these energy sources off and have them plague my existence because I decided I didn't "need" their help.

Now that just sounds stupid...ugh.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 15, 2011, 03:51:28 PM
Does a closed door on someone else's house tick you off? :)

(I know there's more explanation that should go with that, but the words aren't coming - that's just what popped into my head, so that's what I'm going with right now... if I figure out the right words, I'll add more.)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 15, 2011, 03:55:13 PM
Gonna add my 2 cents before I respond to your last question ...

To me, a circle (circle being a misnomer since it's really a sphere) serves multiple purposes.  Yes, it is a boundary to keep out those energies I don't want in a working.  But it is also a connection to the Universe ... when I create a circle, I am creating a sacred space within the Universe and all it's dimensions (not just the 4 we physically experience) and it connects my personal space with the space in other realms.  It also helps to act as a means of focusing, concentrating, and sending out the energies I create within the circle.


I guess my next question is, how do you respectfully deny entrance? I'd hate to tick these energy sources off and have them plague my existence because I decided I didn't "need" their help.

Don't know about others, but my feeling is that the circle I create is MY space and only those entities/energies that I specifically invite in are allowed ... all others are kept out by default.  Tir's comment about a closed door is a good analogy. ;)

As an aside, even my animals respect the boundaries of a circle. I once had a need to create one in a small room and part of the circle "cut" into the corner of one of my fish tanks.  The fish came all the way up to the circle's boundary, but not to the side of the tank like they usually do.  I found that interesting at the time because I'd not been doing ritual work for very long back then.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 03:58:46 PM
Thanks Tirya and Crystal Dragon. I love the plain speak explanations. They definitely help my frazzled brain - I probably should talk to more adults, toddler talk is all I hear all day and it definitely has effected my understanding lol
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 15, 2011, 04:01:22 PM
Having kids will do that to ya. ;)

And I just realized that really didn't get into why entities don't get ticked off at us.

When we create a circle/bubble as a sacred space, we are staking our claim (though it may be temporary) to a small space in the Universe.  The circle has the effect of being like a "do not disturb" sign on a hotel room door.  It's not negative, nor is it taken in a negative manner.

Most of the entities out in the Universe find humans to be slow, boring creatures and tend to ignore us anyway, so I've never worried about ticking anyone/anything off and have never had a sense of any of them being annoyed.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 15, 2011, 04:04:08 PM
LOL!

I apologize for the shortness on the second answer. Sometimes I'll read something and a reply pops immediately into my head, and I've learned over the years that when that happens, it's generally good for me to post it.

The frustrating thing is when the reply that pops in is a one-sentence thing (like the door comment), and for the life of me I can't come up with more words to help it make sense. ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Zlat on November 15, 2011, 04:12:12 PM
Just as an aside, if you want a little different perspective on the purpose and use of circle casting. If you get some time to read it, look into runelore casting. There's a specific means and method of creating a sacred space, that basically incorporates all the runes (and what they represent) to surround you in that sphere (it's not really a flat circle). It sort of puts you in a nexus between the worlds, elements, etc...

And there's the keeping out counter-productive energies, not to mention ill-meaning critters...

I'll post a good book title if you're interested, don't have it on me atm.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 04:41:33 PM
I'll post a good book title if you're interested

I'm totally interested! Thank you!
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Zlat on November 15, 2011, 06:03:50 PM
Sure. I'm at my parents house cooking supper at the moment, but when I get home in a few hours I'll post the details up on this thread. :)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 15, 2011, 08:53:49 PM
For me the circle-casting (or creating sacred space) is, in addition to what others have said, an important precursor to the main ritual workings as it helps me get into the appropriate frame of mind and level of consciousness in order to do the work. As an example, I burn sage and play a drum and rattle before I do a shamanic journey and the acts of burning the sage and playing the instruments and well as the sounds and smells that accompany those actions prepare my brain for journeying by helping induce a trance state. Spirits are also invited to the space at this time. Circle-casting basically works the same way.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Zlat on November 15, 2011, 09:11:59 PM
Here's the book I mentioned.

FUTHARK: A Handbook of Rune Magic.
Author: Edred Thorsson
copyright: 1991
Publisher: Weiser

The 4th chapter is the one that has the rituals in it, titled Rune Work
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 15, 2011, 10:17:39 PM
For me the circle-casting (or creating sacred space) is, in addition to what others have said, an important precursor to the main ritual workings as it helps me get into the appropriate frame of mind and level of consciousness in order to do the work.

Thanks earthmuffin! I hadn't thought of it this way, either. That makes a lot of sense even if it didn't serve any other purpose.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Mongo on November 15, 2011, 11:49:55 PM
I have noticed one consistency in my study of the pagan "sects*"  that use magick. Circle casting during spells/rituals/cleansings/etc. I vaguely, from what I read, understand that circle casting creates a "sacred" space. An almost spot light effect for the deity to hone in on you while you are doing your magickal workings. I might be wrong here, but I also understand a circle as a way to concentrate magickal workings to make the effects stronger - I could be wrong there though.

That is one purpose. One way to look at it (and there are many) is to think of it as a propane tank. If you just let the propane dissipate into the air as you produce it, you lose a lot of it. If you bottle it up in a tank then you can hold it while you are producing it and keep it safe and uncontaminated until you are ready to use it.

The circle can be used like that. You can hold the magical energies in place until you are ready to let it loose in one go.

Also as it is being stored, other energies and blessings can be placed on it as you are holding it. Either directly or as a side benefit of letting the powers of the divine in and letting it get charged by the workings in the circle.

Quote
Okay, now the reason I'm creating this post: For a pantheist like me, who feels everything is divine and there is no "deity" per se, and that my energy (magick) is pulled from the Universe and the environment around me, how is casting a circle effective? Would that not be counterproductive? Wouldn't casting a circle block the energy from coming to me from my surroundings?

When you create a circle, you are not isolating yourself from everything. You are casting a barrier to prevent anything you do not want from coming in and to allow that which you allow to come in. Think of it as a firewall for a computer. It protects you from the harmful things on the internet but does not cut you off from the internet.

So you cast a circle. In the circle you can isolate yourself from the negative thoughts of your neighbors, the negative energies of society (especially at this high stress part of the year). You have a clean slate in which to work. Now that you are encircled you can then let in the powers of the Divine, the powers of the elements, the powers of others that are willing and able to help you. You can do this because you invite them in.

Quote
I realize that not everything that pertains to the magickal community will pertain to me, but I'm just concerned that if I do not perform something that is so uh...consistently performed in the magickal community that my workings will not be effective. (Not that I'm anywhere near comfortable yet, still learning)

The energy out there in the world is there for you to use. Much of it has no shape and has no direction. You need to use your will to ask permission of the Divine (Elements, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Lord and Lady, etc)  to use that surplus energy and to channel it to fit your needs. this is why we often say that visualization is a very important part of what we do.

You don't need to cast one to do magical workings, but many find that it being a cleansed space that is isolated (until you let things in) is very peaceful and allows them to better achieve focus.

Quote
*I know "sect" has a negative connotation, but its the best word I know to describe individual groups under the same umbrella religion. Sorry...no offense meant!

I think you're thinking of "Tradition" or "Path". They are better at explaining what we are. I can say that I'm Wiccan but follow a family tradition or path. Others may say that they follow the Gardnerian path. Still others may say that they follow Norse Traditions. Etc and so on.
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 16, 2011, 12:04:27 AM
Everyone says "circle" or "sphere" but the visualization that I get from what you all have posted makes me think funnel and on the one end of the funnel there is a cheese cloth filter.

Why a circle (sphere)? Why not a square (cube)?

I'm sure I'm just being silly now...:\
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 16, 2011, 03:34:44 AM
I don't know where the term 'circle' comes from but the sphere shape is intuitive and logical because the sphere in nature is the strongest possible shape and easily holds surface tension.  That's why soap bubbles are sphere shaped. ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Ghost Wolf on November 16, 2011, 06:29:10 AM
The term "circle" most likely comes from medieval Ceremonial Magic Grimorires.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Eternal Seeker on November 16, 2011, 06:53:31 AM

I have a different visual- for me, raising the circle progresses first from empowering the ring, then growing it to a fence, then to an infinite tube, rather than a sphere. It may be my linear thinking, but a sphere 9' in diameter- the most commonly quoted size- is only 4 1/2' in radius, meaning your head and shoulders protrude out of the top! A sphere permitting a dozen adults in the center without cutting their heads off would have to be at least 20' in diameter, and realistically, unless you're standing shoulder to shoulder, more like 30'!

peace,
ES
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 16, 2011, 09:46:38 AM
ES's comments raises the question why a sphere 9 feet in diameter was chosen as the "proper" size in the first place.

Who came up with that size?
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 16, 2011, 09:49:28 AM
To answer my own question (did a little research) it was in the Gardnerian BOS; however there was no mention of a sphere ever being envisioned so that was apparently a later add-on of somebody or other.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 16, 2011, 09:58:10 AM
I don't limit mine to a specific size ... it ends up being whatever size I need at the time. ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 16, 2011, 10:16:18 AM
While I do tend to visualize a sphere for my Wiccanesque rituals, my visualizations are not perfect enough for the 9 ft sphere problem to matter. I might be encased in a bubble more shaped like an egg. During my shamanic practice, I don't visualize a sphere at all. I just honor the 6 directions, which has a bit of the same effect as casting a sphere, but there are no bounds on it.

I rather like this thread because I enjoy learning why certain aspects of Wiccan practice were chosen, who came up with them in the first place and how they have been interpreted or enhanced by others because Wicca is such a mish-mosh of ideas and religious practices. Because I like the things I do to make sense (and very much dislike being a sheep), this type of examination helps filter out the stuff that is incongruous or just plain goofy.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Eternal Seeker on November 16, 2011, 01:11:52 PM

That's what I was trying to say with the "Syncretic process" thread- http://www.paganjourneys.com/index.php?topic=212.0  I don't care what you do, but you should know why you're doing it.

peace,
ES
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Ghost Wolf on November 16, 2011, 01:47:42 PM
To answer my own question (did a little research) it was in the Gardnerian BOS; however there was no mention of a sphere ever being envisioned so that was apparently a later add-on of somebody or other.

No, that is oral knowledge.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 16, 2011, 01:54:24 PM

I have a different visual- for me, raising the circle progresses first from empowering the ring, then growing it to a fence, then to an infinite tube, rather than a sphere.

This might be more what I was imagining than a cone or funnel. Just some way to channel the forces I would like to work with in, but keep those I'm not ready to use or do not need to use respectfully at bay. Also, it seems more logical (darn logic) to "cut a door" into something with straight sides rather than a bubble.

Does the shape of the "sacred" space even matter?

ES - I read the thread you linked too. It goes hand in hand, doesn't it?

Oh boy, is my head spinning :/
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 16, 2011, 02:58:56 PM

That's what I was trying to say with the "Syncretic process" thread- http://www.paganjourneys.com/index.php?topic=212.0  I don't care what you do, but you should know why you're doing it.

peace,
ES


I totally agree.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 16, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
To answer my own question (did a little research) it was in the Gardnerian BOS; however there was no mention of a sphere ever being envisioned so that was apparently a later add-on of somebody or other.

No, that is oral knowledge.

How do you know?
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: VisionFromAfar on November 16, 2011, 04:32:12 PM
To answer my own question (did a little research) it was in the Gardnerian BOS; however there was no mention of a sphere ever being envisioned so that was apparently a later add-on of somebody or other.

No, that is oral knowledge.

How do you know?

He read it in a book somewhere, no doubt.  :crazylaugh:


edit: fixed my reply to outside the quote. I are engineer, am good at computers.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Ghost Wolf on November 16, 2011, 05:34:25 PM
 :rolleye: Never mind. Carry on.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Zlat on November 16, 2011, 05:35:52 PM
You guys are funny  :D
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 16, 2011, 11:32:21 PM
Does the shape of the "sacred" space even matter?

That will depend on who you ask. ;)

My "gut" says it doesn't ... sacred space is sacred space.

I use the sphere for reasons that make sense to me.  If a cylinder or cube makes more sense to you, by all means use it.  If you are in tune with the energies, it will be obvious if something is "off" with whatever shape you use.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: treeforest on November 18, 2011, 08:00:00 AM
I like to cast a circle, sometimes. Sometimes it is very fun - I'll make a little show if it with myself, by dancing in a circle and carefully placing stones or sticks or leaves at the border. When I visualize the energy, it is always a sphere, penetrating into the ground and above me, meeting the surface plane where the border is set down. My spheres are also very magickal in that they will adjust size if I accidentally step outside :P
Other times I do not feel the need for such fancy-ness
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 18, 2011, 11:29:40 AM
Okay, I have to ask this question. If casting a circle is like an invitation to the "good" energy you want to use in ritual and keeps the "bad" energy away - would a verbal invitation and visualization not accomplish the same goal?

For instance:
"I ask for assistance from [insert energy forces here] to [insert reason here] but respectfully decline the aid of other forces not mentioned and request that forces with ill-will keep moving?" Maybe more poetically than that, but you catch my drift. And maybe envision speaking directly to an audience (personify the energy, if you will).

I just don't understand the reason for the pomp and circumstance or the "shield". I know you keep saying it isn't, but that is all I can picture. "Nasties" leering in on my workings through the wide angle a bubble makes.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 18, 2011, 11:47:01 AM
Interesting thought, but by definition would any ill-willed entity be respectful of your request? The wording made me think of the effectiveness of politely asking someone who is about to mug you to please go on his way.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 18, 2011, 11:54:19 AM
Interesting thought, but by definition would any ill-willed entity be respectful of your request? The wording made me think of the effectiveness of politely asking someone who is about to mug you to please go on his way.

Oh bother. You're so right. Lets just find a neon arrow to float over my head that says "this person is way too trusting and a little naive"
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: BronwynWolf on November 18, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
Interesting thought, but by definition would any ill-willed entity be respectful of your request? The wording made me think of the effectiveness of politely asking someone who is about to mug you to please go on his way.

Oh bother. You're so right. Lets just find a neon arrow to float over my head that says "this person is way too trusting and a little naive"

No dear. You are just a bit excited about the concept of 'divine'. It really isn't always a good (positive) thing, but most people raised within the Judeo-Christian world get stuck on the idea that to be divine MUST mean it is good, not "evil"
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 18, 2011, 12:27:21 PM
I don't know if I agree, Bron. I think the Judeo-Christian worldview may have been one of the first to really emphasize the duality of good and evil with the construct of Satan.

I struggle with the concept of evil myself, FairyQueen, so don't feel bad about my comments.  ()

Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 18, 2011, 12:31:40 PM
No dear. You are just a bit excited about the concept of 'divine'. It really isn't always a good (positive) thing, but most people raised within the Judeo-Christian world get stuck on the idea that to be divine MUST mean it is good, not "evil"

I was lost to Christianity a long time and never saw the "good" in what was taught there. Really, it is that I can't believe anything but humanity is evil. Wow, isn't that a bit cynical?
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: BronwynWolf on November 18, 2011, 12:45:19 PM
EM, I wasn't talking about the duality aspect. J/C kinda seperated "good" from "evil" and everything had to be either/or. We know that's not usually the case.

Fairy, it does seem only human beings can do certain things deliberately, by concious choice. Nothing cynical about that.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 18, 2011, 12:50:19 PM
So, I guess there really is no better way to go about it then casting a [insert shape here]? 
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 18, 2011, 01:55:16 PM
Try variations and find out - just because it works for one person doesn't mean it will feel right for you. :) My sacred space is more of a dome, now that I think about it, and it's yellow. For me, it works. For someone else, trying to visualize it as yellow might totally throw them, because they "see" it as white or silver or something else. For me, my sacred space is not only a way for me to invite and welcome the energies and entities, it also sends a essage to my subconscious along the lines of "hey, we're doing something special here, time to focus and pay attention". It sets it apart from the ordinary.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 18, 2011, 04:15:35 PM
EM, I wasn't talking about the duality aspect. J/C kinda seperated "good" from "evil" and everything had to be either/or. We know that's not usually the case.


I see what you mean now and agree.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Eternal Seeker on November 18, 2011, 07:58:00 PM

I agree with Tirya- try it. "We learn by doing".

peace,
ES

P.S. By the way, I love your questions, and the way you address the answers. You have a natural gift that just needs encouraging.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 18, 2011, 10:23:37 PM
I just wanted to clarify that the intent of whatever you use (circle/sphere, shield, intent) to create a sacred space is not just to keep out "evil", "bad" energy, or "ill-willed" beings.

One would not necessarily need to intend a negative outcome to be counterproductive to a working.  If you don't set limits on who can help, you may get "help" you don't want.

Let's say you want to do a spell or ritual to improve the energy in your home.  If Eris, Loki, or Coyote were to come and lend a hand, you'd end up with a lot of chaotic energy floating around.  Yeah, it could "improve" things, but it would likely be going about it the hard way.

Better to only get the sort of help you need or want.  ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 18, 2011, 11:05:21 PM
I just wanted to clarify that the intent of whatever you use (circle/sphere, shield, intent) to create a sacred space is not just to keep out "evil", "bad" energy, or "ill-willed" beings.

One would not necessarily need to intend a negative outcome to be counterproductive to a working.  If you don't set limits on who can help, you may get "help" you don't want.

Let's say you want to do a spell or ritual to improve the energy in your home.  If Eris, Loki, or Coyote were to come and lend a hand, you'd end up with a lot of chaotic energy floating around.  Yeah, it could "improve" things, but it would likely be going about it the hard way.

Better to only get the sort of help you need or want.  ;)

Okay then, besides trial and error, how can one be sure they've set the appropriate limits and only the truly helpful have come to party?
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Tirya on November 18, 2011, 11:48:21 PM
Of course, that's half the fun of working with Coyote. Well, okay, a quarter. It's never boring, and the lessons stick with you, let's put it that way... :whistle:
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: bluefire on November 19, 2011, 09:41:24 AM
I have been hesitant to add my thoughts here because I never want to discourage folks from following their own instincts, but I do want to share my ideas; so please take this and use what seems right to you and discard the rest.

Traditional circle casting does form a sphere, and that is for a good reason. We call on the four watchtowers to aid and protect us in our ritual. When all four elements are represented, there is a balancing that helps ensure that balance -- good -- will prevail. We do not need to call out all unwanted entities although we may want to specifically invite those being invoked. The watchtowers are wiser than we are and work together for us in the circle when we invite and respect them.

When the energy of all forces is present, a sphere -- the shape of balance -- is created around us, like a bubble. The energy comes together in the middle of the watchtowers and emanates out to its natural shape.

Energy is stronger than any of us individually. We can generate our own energy to "pull" a different shape, but like elastic, the circle will probably just return to a sphere.

Just my belief and observation.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 19, 2011, 01:29:36 PM
Thanks for that BF ... much better than I could have said it! :warmfuzz:

Okay then, besides trial and error, how can one be sure they've set the appropriate limits and only the truly helpful have come to party?

As for the rest?  If you are well grounded in ethics and really think about your ritual or spell beforehand that will cover some of it ... but the rest is all trial and error.  You will have things happen that you didn't count on.  The question is whether or not you will learn from them. ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 19, 2011, 02:38:56 PM
 :brickwall: <-- That is how you will feel after I say what is to follow.

I still don't truly understand the necessity. Because I don't believe in "evil" the idea of creating a space where "evil" is uninvited doesn't make sense. ALSO because I believe respect is earned and rewarded with respect in turn, I believe I could possibly create a "relationship" with the energy givers so the energy I do not wish to pull from will respect my wishes should I just ask. I completely respect the elements and all other aspects of nature, but don't understand why "calling" the "watchtowers" to surround and protect my sacred space (which isn't supposed to be a shield, but certainly sounds like it is) as I perform my magic.

And I soooo know you all are going to see "just do it and you will see" but will I truly "see" if I don't believe I will see? If magic is only pulling energy from our surroundings and altering our subconscious to act in a different way to help with our desired outcome, will I truly see?

I'm terribly sorry. I don't want to be a nuisance, and I'm so afraid I've already become one. 
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: bluefire on November 19, 2011, 02:51:43 PM
I'm terribly sorry. I don't want to be a nuisance, and I'm so afraid I've already become one.

You are not being a nuisance. You have asked a question and we have answered. It is your choice to do what you will with what we say.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Crystal Dragon on November 19, 2011, 09:40:54 PM
I'm terribly sorry. I don't want to be a nuisance, and I'm so afraid I've already become one.

You are not being a nuisance. You have asked a question and we have answered. It is your choice to do what you will with what we say.

Agreed ... BUT, you need to read the responses more thoroughly.  In my first response I said:

To me, a circle (circle being a misnomer since it's really a sphere) serves multiple purposes.  Yes, it is a boundary to keep out those energies I don't want in a working.  But it is also a connection to the Universe ... when I create a circle, I am creating a sacred space within the Universe and all it's dimensions (not just the 4 we physically experience) and it connects my personal space with the space in other realms.  It also helps to act as a means of focusing, concentrating, and sending out the energies I create within the circle.

I never mentioned "evil" anything and gave two additional reasons for creating a circle.  I don't mind answering the questions or even having a debate, but I do get a bit irked when misquoted or ignored. ;)
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: earthmuffin on November 19, 2011, 10:13:57 PM
I think you might be focusing too much on the idea of evil.

The protective aspect of the circle is just one of its many functions and you can think of the protection in terms of what Tirya and CD explained in their posts posts, i.e., it is filtering out background energies that may be counterproductive to what you want to accomplish in circle.

Personally, I don't so much "call the Watchtowers" as "invite the spirits" of the cardinal directions and the elements to ask for their aid and for their energies to be present to create the balance BlueFire pointed out. With unbalanced energy, you can have things go wonky on you and you may have unintended consequences associated with your spell work. Having said that, I'm sure there are plenty of witches who don't cast circles prior to their workings. You just have to see what works best for you, I suppose.

 
And I soooo know you all are going to see "just do it and you will see" but will I truly "see" if I don't believe I will see?

Your beliefs will affect what you see to a certain extent. I have found that a certain degree of faith in the process is important to a successful outcome when conducting shamanic journeying. On the other hand, I have also had experiences that have defied my beliefs and blown my mind in the process. For example, I was pretty much an atheist with no interest in spirituality a few years ago and only am where I am today because of evidence that presented itself to me. After that I was pretty adamant that I didn't believe in gods or goddesses as entities but only as archetypes of divinity-- that is until Demeter gave me a good slap upside the head (actually she was quite nurturing). You may think you know how it all works based on what is logical or makes the most sense to you, but I think you will have greater success and probably be successful more quickly if you keep an open mind.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: FairyQueen on November 19, 2011, 11:39:08 PM
I don't mind answering the questions or even having a debate, but I do get a bit irked when misquoted or ignored.

I didn't realize I had misquoted or ignored you. I'm sorry you feel I served your advice an injustice. I value every piece of advice I've been given thus far, including yours.

Maybe there is something I'm just not understanding and I'm having a hard time explaining just what that is. I'll just let it rest now, and if I understand what is bothering me better I'll touch on it then. Thanks, everyone...
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Mongo on November 21, 2011, 02:00:44 AM
You will have things happen that you didn't count on.  The question is whether or not you will learn from them. ;)

Oh yeah. I count my blessings that I had thought out my first major magical working as well as I did. As it was it really rocked my world with unintended consequences. All for the better, but I did learn to think out not just the "how" but the "why am I doing this" as well.
Title: Re: The Necessity of Circle Casting
Post by: Mongo on November 21, 2011, 02:30:53 AM
I still don't truly understand the necessity. Because I don't believe in "evil" the idea of creating a space where "evil" is uninvited doesn't make sense.

Regardless of whether or not you believe in "evil", there are things out there that can be counterproductive to your workings. these things can be simply be the negative emotional residue from a stressed out person that you have met earlier that day, to your own feelings of doubt and uncertainty. These residues at best are a distraction and at worst can manifest as malevolent entities. Maybe not evil, but certainly attracted to the energies being raised and would tap into them and pull them away from where you feel they are needed.

Casting a circle or other ward keeps you isolated from them.

A
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LSO because I believe respect is earned and rewarded with respect in turn, I believe I could possibly create a "relationship" with the energy givers so the energy I do not wish to pull from will respect my wishes should I just ask. I completely respect the elements and all other aspects of nature, but don't understand why "calling" the "watchtowers" to surround and protect my sacred space (which isn't supposed to be a shield, but certainly sounds like it is) as I perform my magic.

Don't think of them as a shield. think of them more as the ushers at a ceremony. they check for invitations and either show the invited to their seats or politely turn away anything that is not supposed to be there.

Quote
And I soooo know you all are going to see "just do it and you will see" but will I truly "see" if I don't believe I will see? If magic is only pulling energy from our surroundings and altering our subconscious to act in a different way to help with our desired outcome, will I truly see?

If you don't believe, then there is going to be no effect. I think you're overthinking it.

A circle or other form of sacred space's primary function is to be an area where you can do that which you need to have done. Think of it this way. When you are going off to study you tend to want to isolate yourself from distractions. People in another room watching the football game, a boisterous cookout at your neighbors house, things like that. These are the things that make you seek out a quiet space away from them. You might even shut off your cell phone and hang a sign on the door informing people that you are studying and need to be left undisturbed. The people watching the game or the people having a fun time at the cook out are not evil, just not what you need at the time. You may even on occasion call someone to come over and help you study a part that is a bit harder than you can understand the way it's being taught in a book. So invited, they can come in.

So casting the circle or creating sacred space is the metaphysical version of finding a good study location. It cuts you off from the distractions of other energies in the area that you do not lose focus dealing with them, it keeps out the random and wandering entities and still allows that which you invite to come and help you.

And even though you do not believe in evil as an entity, there are people who do evil things. There are people who will be mad at you and will though their hatred, create a connection to you and can drag you down emotionally. A circle can break the connection and allow you to set up something to prevent them from doing it again. And remember that magic is something that anyone can do even if they know they're doing it or not. Some person with a grudge and a dollar store book on voodoo dolls can do more damage than even they know. Sure one may not feel the pin jabbed into the lap of the doll personally, but there can be a negative effect.

The circle is your place to sever the links you do not want while at the same time allowing you to reattach and strengthen the links that you want.

I know. I found out that my wife's ex had one of those novelty voodoo dolls, drew (poorly) my likeness on it (the kids took a cell phone picture of it) and was stabbing "mini-me" in the lap quite a lot. When I was shown the picture and they tole me when he had purchased it, thinking back I noticed that during that time period I was feeling a little out of sorts. Nothing obvious, just felt "off". I cast a circle to sever the link and did a mirror spell. Felt tons better.

So try a ritual with the circle. Don't think of it as a shield, but start at first just thinking of it as the metaphysical "quiet room" in which to do your workings. See if it feels differently than how you are doing it now.