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Magik or Luck?

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earthmuffin:
As always, ES says exactly what I wish I had the eloquence to say and gets extra points for the Star Trek reference. :) May the odds be ever in your favor, ES.  :D

DragonsFriend:
This is really interesting for me. Quite a wide range of beliefs here. I thank you all for your insights.

VisionFromAfar:
As a Heathen, considering "luck" as just the chaos of the Universe at play is a little difficult. I'll second ES's analogy of baseball and social dynamics, though.
As a big fan of Chaos Theory, however, it kinda does work out. There isn't "chance," because everything has momentum, even (and at times, especially) in the dimensions we can't directly interact with (anything beyond 4). A butterfly flaps its wings an extra time in Cali, and tornadoes rip through a football stadium in Kansas. It's not controlled or understood, so we call it "chaos." To our limited perception, the impact we do see is so far removed from the root catalyst that connecting the two isn't possible. Like billiard balls after a break: events, people, countries, planets, atoms...everything jumbles together in the soup of reality, some with more weight and momentum than others, but it pays to recall "Give me whereon to stand, and I will move the Earth." Intent and magic can and do affect these momentums, the web of wyrd, but so do other things. Opposing spells can cancel each other out, or the tiniest nail can flatten a tire and cause either a rough morning, which leads to a chance meeting at the repair shop, which leads to a happy marriage. Calling it clockwork is wrong because that implies ordered procession of events, but that's not what happens. It's a dancing web of uncontrolled causation, and we're just along for the ride.
All of this is to say, I think magic and energy can help me 'align' or 'deflect' things to my advantage, but it's one small aspect of what I need to do to control my life. The biggest thing I'm trying to learn right now is how to maintain my own momentum, to not let these collisions and sparks divert my own course. It's not easy, but I'm trying.

Tinevisce:
A really interesting question, DragonsFriend- and one which I haven't been able to satisfactorily answer myself thus far. That said, it's something that's really pertinent to me because I struggle with the fatalism vs indeterminism (is that even a word? No words came readily to mind for fatalism's opposite) question a lot in my dealings with divination.

I come from a culture where astrology is very much a part of daily life- especially when it comes to things like marriages or starting new business ventures. Basically, you wouldn't consult astrology to figure out how your week's going to go...but if you're getting hitched or starting a new venture, you probably might. It isn't exactly belief so much as a niggling worry at the back of your mind.

I don't know if- but am sure it probably does- western astrology operates from the same paradigm that eastern astrology does, but over here your natal charts can theoretically map out your entire life...down to the gender and number of your grandchildren (!)....and the celestial bodies (the Sanskrit word graha is used for planets, moons and starts as well) are taken as the only factors affecting your life....your personal ability to affect changes in the wyrd (I love the conception of the wyrd- the imagery makes so much sense!) is non-existent or goes un-acknowledged.

So a period of ill-dignified Mercury (I'm totally making this example up, please don't kill me  :whistle:) in your life isn't about facing challenges in communication so much as a period of everything communication related going wrong in your life- do you see the difference in perspective?
What disturbs me even further is how prospective spouses are astrologically evaluated for compatibility.

Depending on the time and place of birth (basically, which stars you were born under) a person can be Manav (Human), Dev (God) or Rakshash (Demon)*: the groups are somewhat like personality types.

(Interesting tidbit... a Dev or a Rakshash is usually very easy to spot from their personality)

You have rules which dictate how compatible these groups are with each other: M-M, D-D, R-R usually get along fine, as does M-D. D-R couples usually are too busy fighting to make a relationship work whereas, and here's the kicker, M-R matches are forbidden because the M half of the couple generally gets killed before their time.  :brickwall:
Something in me really, really bristles at the idea that two different kinds of people will somehow "magically" invite influences into their lives which will result in this kind of a tragedy...no, just no.

Evaluating how well two people will get along based on their natures is something I understand- I can do similar things with the Tarot- but I just can't get myself to accept that someone's nature can "invite" tragic circumstances like an untimely passage.

That said, since this is one of those nebulous, boogeyman sort of things...I can't completely forget it either. Like I said, a niggling worry at the back of my head.

On the whole, I think I'm most inclined to agree with Tirya ATM...it would be hubris to say I'm the only one in control of what happens to me...but at the same time, I do get to have a pretty substantial say in what happens around me.
(By "me", of course, I mean generic me...being on the path of mysticism just means I might have a certain kind of arsenal at my disposal to affect changes; someone who isn't into mysticism might have another equally valid kind of arsenal)

*there really isn't an English equivalent for the Sanskrit words rakshash, daitya, asur etc. We use the word demon to translate it because they were frequently at odds with the people who worshipped the Vedic deities; but they were not unholy cast-offs like Abrahamic demons. Many asurs were ardent devotees of some God of the pantheon, and frequently came by their powers by pleasing the Gods.
Anthropologically, they are probably how the tribal, fringe populations were remembered by the so-called "civilised" vedic peoples since there must have been racial/cultural skirmishes The asurs represented threats to the Vedic way of life but were definitely not considered any less worthy of worshiping the Gods

TL;DR
Personal power is a concept that I do struggle with often. From the meek, victimised attitude to the arrogant, "master of my/the universe" one...it's a sliding spectrum for me.

 

DragonsFriend:
I love (and I don't use that word lightly) the replies and points of view in this thread.
A good question is, "can anyone "control" all facets of their life?"
I believe that a well disciplined and "educated" person could but I am not that person. I like the "momentum" concept because it plays an important role in everyones life. It is never a single big decision that turns a person into a "monster" or a "savior". It is always a history of small decisions that lead to a life that enhances or opposes society.
There is also our fears. Anything that we expend an undue amount of time and energy on, is likely to manifest itself in our lives. That manifestation comes because we don't learn to overcome the fear so it keeps occurring until we are forced to deal with it. If we learn to deal with it while the challenge is small then we don't need the extreme event to force us to overcome it.

My take on astrology is that it reveals our strong and weak points so that we can work to balance our lives and grow beyond the limitations of our birth. I was born a Virgo with a Scorpio rising. That combination can be extreme. The Virgo can be just well organized or be obsessive and lost in detail. The Scorpio can exacerbate the tendency for obsession. The Scorpio can, on its own, make a person vindictive and power hungry or it can give one the ability to rise above the primal instincts and soar above the petty path of self destruction. Add the Virgo to it and the concentration on the perception of the wrongs of others adds to the concept of vengeance.
I have learned to be an organized and cooperative person with the ability to lead or stand my ground without blindly striking out against those who intrude. I hesitate to say that I am powerful and use the term potential to moderate the importance of personal power. I know my potential but I also recognize that each of us has the same potential.

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