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 31 
 on: July 16, 2016, 12:04:59 AM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by Tinevisce
Thanks for the responses, ES and DS!

Quote
I am not really sure what would constitute a Left Hand Path.  The terms Left Hand and Right Hand are somewhat subjective in my opinion.  I know that in dealing with some in the local Pagan community, I have heard accusations that this or that person was following a Left Hand path.  Always seemed to be gossip intended to discredit a perceived rival to me.  Maybe it is in the eye of the beholder and just another way to divide ourselves.

Oh, they're definitely very subjective! For an Indian, all forms of witchery would be considered Left Hand (for the layman because it's witchcraft and you aren't worshipping in quite the same way as the others are, and for a more discerning person because you aren't renouncing worldly life in the pursuit of spiritual power), whereas for me, an Indian who considers himself a witch, my practices seem on the rather "right" side of the spectrum. In my head, folks who do more spirit work and come from traditional folkloric magic traditions come across as more towards the left hand paths- but that's my impression, who knows what it would like from the inside?  :rolleye:

Quote
I agree with DS. I think left hand/right hand is a false dichotomy. I once read that a marriage only averages 50/50; at any given moment it's 80/20 one way or the other; I think the same rule applies to any concept of left or right hand path- any one given act/moment may seem left or right hand, but over a lifetime, they average out.

peace,
ES

But what, according to you, would be the difference between the left and right hand approaches? :)

 32 
 on: July 14, 2016, 08:56:40 AM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by Eternal Seeker

I agree with DS. I think left hand/right hand is a false dichotomy. I once read that a marriage only averages 50/50; at any given moment it's 80/20 one way or the other; I think the same rule applies to any concept of left or right hand path- any one given act/moment may seem left or right hand, but over a lifetime, they average out.

peace,
ES

 33 
 on: July 13, 2016, 09:11:46 PM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by dragonspring
I am not really sure what would constitute a Left Hand Path.  The terms Left Hand and Right Hand are somewhat subjective in my opinion.  I know that in dealing with some in the local Pagan community, I have heard accusations that this or that person was following a Left Hand path.  Always seemed to be gossip intended to discredit a perceived rival to me.  Maybe it is in the eye of the beholder and just another way to divide ourselves.

 34 
 on: July 06, 2016, 12:50:12 PM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by Tinevisce
I hesitate to make sweeping statements about any large group of people under a banner that holds places for many people of differing relationships with religion and magikal practices. I doubt that there is more power or that it comes more quickly. I have had minor experiences with folks from left hand paths and for the most part they are people just like everyone else. Their magik is neither stronger nor harder to defeat than any other magik.
I know very little of true Tantra but have never considered it part of the left hand path.

Oh, most definitely- whatever definition you manage to use for a path with whichever many caveats, you'll always find people who can claim the path as their own but not conform to your definition :) Generalisations, I find, are fine enough for kicking off understanding and aren't harmful as such.

I didn't mean to say that Left Hand paths offer more power, just that it usually ends up giving results faster.

Tantra is a Left Hand path to the Divine because it doesn't ask you to detach yourself from attachments or abstain (contrast this with the Right Hand form of worship, Sadhna where you're encouraged to leave behind worldly attachments in pursuit of God)...rather, it proclaims, "The very vehicle which takes you to deepest depths of the Netherworld will be your Chariot to the highest Heavens"

In practice, it also has a very involved mythology surrounding Shakti and Shiva, some of which aren't acknolwedged by mainstream Bramhanical Hinduism. Indeed, Tantra is said to be the under the sole purview of Shiva and Shakti.

Also, while we're on the topic of practical Tantra, it plays fast and loose with earthbound spirits, specifically people who have passed in untimely, violent ways.

I've never studied Tantra from the inside, but from the outside looking in, it seems fairly easy to divorce the spiritual side of Tantra from its practical magical/occult aspects.

As it stands, very few people get into it these days for the spirituality- and as you could guess far better than I could...the results aren't very pretty when you set out trying to control spirits without an underlying spiritual/moral/ethical safety net to rely on.

 35 
 on: July 06, 2016, 12:11:52 PM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by DragonsFriend
I hesitate to make sweeping statements about any large group of people under a banner that holds places for many people of differing relationships with religion and magikal practices. I doubt that there is more power or that it comes more quickly. I have had minor experiences with folks from left hand paths and for the most part they are people just like everyone else. Their magik is neither stronger nor harder to defeat than any other magik.
I know very little of true Tantra but have never considered it part of the left hand path.

 36 
 on: July 06, 2016, 11:45:09 AM 
Started by Tinevisce - Last post by Tinevisce
To start off, I have to say I do have an idea as to what the Left Hand paths essentially are, but it's something very nebulous and indefinite and heavily coloured by pre-conceived notions.

So, I figured I'd post here and get a range of opinions. :)

To me, the Left Hand paths offer results/power relatively faster than the Right Hand but is far less forgiving. "Falling off the bandwagon" would have some very direct, serious consequences. This is really influenced by what I know of Tantra, India's native left hand path of mysticism- I was curious how far off I am from the "official" definition.

 37 
 on: May 30, 2016, 08:19:39 AM 
Started by VisionFromAfar - Last post by anarchistbanjo
I stopped participating in forums and such several years ago for much the same reason. I think I've kind of worked through it hopefully. I've also noticed it in writer's workshops and its probably everywhere. It seems that people are friendly and supportive and will work with you to bring you up to their level or almost up to their level and then will refuse to support you any further. An ego thing like others have said. As long as they are on top they will be friendly and perhaps condescending? But Goddess forbid treat anyone as equals! Chuckle.

I said I think I've worked through it because I'm here for the social contact and the last thing I need or want is to blow my own horn and annoy others. I suspect it will be awhile before I introduce a topic of my own because I want to get to know everyone else first. I'm more comfortable responding to topics that interest others right now.

I did meet Raymond Buckland twice and participated in a Beltaine ritual in which he was an invited guest. He seemed a bit distant but friendly. I should clarify and say he signed a book for me! That isn't really meeting him is it? Chuckle.

 38 
 on: May 29, 2016, 06:35:36 PM 
Started by DragonsFriend - Last post by anarchistbanjo
While I don't like change I am looking forward to it! It is hard to be stuck in a place where there seems to be no growth. I have already found new growth and look forward to new adventures! I live in Minnesota and German is a second language. I've currently translated six books from the original German as a hobby. I spent six months in Germany as a college exchange student back in 1980. Shows how old I am! Chuckle.

 39 
 on: May 29, 2016, 03:55:41 PM 
Started by DragonsFriend - Last post by DragonsFriend
Change is the universal constant and if the change is in different directions we have others to travel together with toward the next completion.
20 years is longer than most marriages last and it will take time to get back to who you are now, without your spouse.
Is German your native language or is it English?

 40 
 on: May 29, 2016, 12:29:26 PM 
Started by DragonsFriend - Last post by anarchistbanjo
My wife of twenty years, (we were married twice) is currently moving out after I tried to move out last year! Sometimes getting unstuck is more difficult than getting stuck! Neither of us want to hurt the other. After she is gone I will need to find another place to live as well.  I recently finished the uncensored English translation of Hanns Heinz Ewers book "Vampire" from the original German and made it available as a kindle book. I also finished another book "Radical Satanism: The Tantric Path of Divine Counterparts" and made it available as a kindle book. I have also just joined two pagan/Wiccan forums (this is one of them) to reach out to others if like mind and spirt. Other than one other person that lives across the world from me I have no other person to talk with about these things. My workplace seems very stressed and chaotic these days. There are some major changes coming. No one knows what they will be.

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