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Author Topic: I'm so confused...  (Read 610 times)

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SonOfStorms

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I'm so confused...
« on: January 04, 2015, 08:09:12 PM »

I'm so, so very confused right now...I don't know where to put this, and I'm nit sure if it belongs on this forum, but I have nowhere else to go...

You see...for the past few weeks, I have been feeling more and more distant and detached from my gods...Odin, Loki, Freya, Heimdall, Tyr, Baldr, even Thor!! No matter how much I try to pray to them, or try to ask them for some guidance, I get no reply. Not even a hint, or a sign...

Then, just as I felt a bit lost and hopeless, I felt a strange urge to seek someone out...I didn't know who that someone was, at the time, but I searched anyway. After a bit of searching, I was, admittedly, a bit disgusted to find my search had taken me to a website about various angels.

I was about to click the back button, until a certain name caught my eye...the name of an angel. The angel was Samael...

Seeing the name, something inside me urged me to seek out more info on him. From what little info I could gather of him, I discovered that he was different from other angels, with a history of being both good and evil.

This struck me as a bit odd, and being reminded of his connection to Christianity and Yahweh, I thought to stop and stoke my curiosity. However, since I discovered Samael, and read about him, I cant shake the feeling that I have some sort of connection to him...

I hate it...I know his connection with Christianity and everything I've grown to despise, yet I can't shake this feeling of a connection with him...I wish I could say that I feel nothing or care about nothing having to do with him, or the angels, but I can't...

What do I do? I feel like such a traitor... :hairpull:
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VisionFromAfar

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 10:11:12 PM »

From all I've read about the Æsir, they're no strangers to letting their followers learn from other paths ("Ours are not Jealous Gods"   8)), or even at times move on completely. I would tell you thus:

1) Trust the Gods. All of them.
Even if you feel distanced from them, I wouldn't stop offerings or prayers, unless you get a firm "No, thanks." They may have their own reasons which you don't need to know right now (or may never know). The best thing you can do for them and yourself is continue to honor your connections until you get a firm separation from their end. It could be they just want to see how strongly you feel about your own end of these connections.
2) Don't hesitate to use divination (or even ask someone else to use it) if you want confirmation, but don't "Diviner Shop".
If you're unsure about something, divination is how we receive messages best from the Gods and Others. However, if you get a "firm" reading (you or whatever diviner you ask will know what that is and when it happens), don't ask around or keep doing other readings, looking for the answer you want. It's okay to seek clarification, it's not okay to keep asking like a whining child.
3) Trust your instincts.
Be cautious, but don't ignore what you genuinely feel lead to.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Despite the inherent contradiction  :rolleye:, the statement holds true enough. Don't dismiss anything out of hand due to it's source.
I'll leave off with one last quote, from the Bard himself: "There is more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio..."
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 05:41:11 AM »

Well...I would just say OK, and leave it there...but that brings me to my next problem...

I tried experimenting, praying to Samael himself and asking him for a bit of an opinion in all of this, or maybe drop a hint that he's paying attention, but he ignored me, too...

I searched a but online, and discovered that there are other, more reliable ways of contacting him, but they require hours of prep, and a complicated ritual, with certain offerings and such that I don't have access to. And even if I DID, I would never be able to have the privacy or the time in which to carry out the ritual...

So I'm stone-walled on either end, it seems...
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dragonspring

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 08:09:56 AM »

Unless you are very experienced in ceremonial magic, I would advise steering clear of any ritual that attempts to coerce Samael's  participation.  In my opinion, it is important to show a degree of respect and humility when dealing with entities of his nature. 

Vision has given you some good advice regarding the AEsir.  In addition to trying some divination, meditation might be a good method of figuring out what is going on.  Perhaps Samael has some message for you - if that is the case you will figure out what it is eventually without placing yourself at risk.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 09:07:13 PM »

Unless you are very experienced in ceremonial magic, I would advise steering clear of any ritual that attempts to coerce Samael's  participation.  In my opinion, it is important to show a degree of respect and humility when dealing with entities of his nature. 

Vision has given you some good advice regarding the AEsir.  In addition to trying some divination, meditation might be a good method of figuring out what is going on.  Perhaps Samael has some message for you - if that is the case you will figure out what it is eventually without placing yourself at risk.

Good point...I don't know anything about ritualistic summoning or contacting, much less angelic rituals.

But I'm honestly a bit skeptical...I don't really know what to expect from Samael. From what very little I could find on him, mixed, differed, contradicted, and scattered around the internet, he has a 50/50 chance of either being a good, yet grim, archangel of death, who protects mankind. Or a ruthless, evil, blackhearted demon who enjoys torturing mortals and corrupting humans...   
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dragonspring

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 08:13:51 PM »

I don't really know what to expect from Samael. From what very little I could find on him, mixed, differed, contradicted, and scattered around the internet, he has a 50/50 chance of either being a good, yet grim, archangel of death, who protects mankind. Or a ruthless, evil, blackhearted demon who enjoys torturing mortals and corrupting humans...
Which is exactly why I suggested caution and patience - dealing with entities of his nature can be dangerous to the unprepared.  I would suggest that you continue to research Samael if you feel led to do so.  I recall that when I was looking for information, there were several blogs and some demonology/demonolatry sites where people wrote of their own personal experiences with him.  Over time and as you gain life experience, you may come to a better understanding of his nature.  A connection with him does not need to be rushed, it will still be there when and if you are ever ready.  For example, my husband was led to a rare book about Lilith after years of feeling drawn to her.  It was just sitting there new on the shelf at Barnes and Noble waiting for him to snatch it up at a fraction of its worth. 

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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 08:26:42 PM »

I don't really know what to expect from Samael. From what very little I could find on him, mixed, differed, contradicted, and scattered around the internet, he has a 50/50 chance of either being a good, yet grim, archangel of death, who protects mankind. Or a ruthless, evil, blackhearted demon who enjoys torturing mortals and corrupting humans...
Which is exactly why I suggested caution and patience - dealing with entities of his nature can be dangerous to the unprepared.  I would suggest that you continue to research Samael if you feel led to do so.  I recall that when I was looking for information, there were several blogs and some demonology/demonolatry sites where people wrote of their own personal experiences with him.  Over time and as you gain life experience, you may come to a better understanding of his nature.  A connection with him does not need to be rushed, it will still be there when and if you are ever ready.  For example, my husband was led to a rare book about Lilith after years of feeling drawn to her.  It was just sitting there new on the shelf at Barnes and Noble waiting for him to snatch it up at a fraction of its worth.

Well, I don't think he's a demon, to be honest...I don't know why, but despite his reputation, I have an odd feeling that he's actually a fallen archangel, as some of the accounts claim. Although, I still have to practice caution with him...I still don't know why he wants my attention, or if he even wants it at all...but lets hope I find out soon enough.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2015, 07:52:39 PM »

I don't really know what to expect from Samael. From what very little I could find on him, mixed, differed, contradicted, and scattered around the internet, he has a 50/50 chance of either being a good, yet grim, archangel of death, who protects mankind. Or a ruthless, evil, blackhearted demon who enjoys torturing mortals and corrupting humans...
Which is exactly why I suggested caution and patience - dealing with entities of his nature can be dangerous to the unprepared.  I would suggest that you continue to research Samael if you feel led to do so.  I recall that when I was looking for information, there were several blogs and some demonology/demonolatry sites where people wrote of their own personal experiences with him.  Over time and as you gain life experience, you may come to a better understanding of his nature.  A connection with him does not need to be rushed, it will still be there when and if you are ever ready.  For example, my husband was led to a rare book about Lilith after years of feeling drawn to her.  It was just sitting there new on the shelf at Barnes and Noble waiting for him to snatch it up at a fraction of its worth.

Well, I don't think he's a demon, to be honest...I don't know why, but despite his reputation, I have an odd feeling that he's actually a fallen archangel, as some of the accounts claim. Although, I still have to practice caution with him...I still don't know why he wants my attention, or if he even wants it at all...but lets hope I find out soon enough.

I've got some news on my dilemma! As it turns out, I might have been followed by Samael for a lot longer than I thought. You see, the gods started becoming distanced from me around a month or two ago, around the same time that my mom and grandma got into a car crash...an accident that, by all rights, should've killed them. My grandma's car was demolished, the whole front of the car smashed flat, with the engine nearly in the front seat. They had crashed into a tractor.

After the incident, I began thanking the gods immensely. However, the more I thanked them, the more they began pushing me away. At first, I thought it was because they were simply sick of me. But I was wrong. They weren't ignoring me, they were trying to direct me to my family's true savior; Samael. Thats why he's been trying to get my attention!

You see, Samael is an angel of death. However, this role has been contested, for the fact that Michael was also mentioned to be an angel of death. But I think their BOTH angels of death. My theory is that Samael reaps the souls of the dead who died in accidents, murders, disease and wars, while Michael takes care of those who die peaceful deaths.

I think that Samael refused to reap their souls, and thus saved them. And to prove my point even further; my mom was almost attacked a few weeks ago, by a man trying to break into her car. However, yet again, she was spared a terrible fate. Samael seemed to save her again, and seems to be keen on protecting my family...but the question now is, why?
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Tinevisce

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 10:37:20 AM »

I just wanted to thank you for sharing these experiences with us- I'm benifitting a lot from learning how Divinity touches different people.

Good luck!
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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 11:18:56 AM »

I am probably speaking to deaf ears, but I would caution against falling into the traps of magical thinking and confirmation bias, especially when dealing with a dark entity such as Samael.  If one proceeds incautiously based on incorrect assumptions, it could lead to serious negative consequences. 
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 11:24:44 AM »

I am probably speaking to deaf ears, but I would caution against falling into the traps of magical thinking and confirmation bias, especially when dealing with a dark entity such as Samael.  If one proceeds incautiously based on incorrect assumptions, it could lead to serious negative consequences.

Oh, dont worry, I'm quite cautious. I'm not gonna do anything stupid, dont worry. I might be grateful for what might be a good deed done by Samael, but I'm not gonna suddenly start worshiping him and invite him into my house. I'm smarter than I look.  :D (I think...)
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 11:27:30 AM »

I'll give it some time and see if any of the gods show any red flags, and let me know that I'm just an assuming idiot, or if there's some sort of info I'm missing.
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VisionFromAfar

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 01:48:06 PM »

Not to sound like a nag (but I'm totally willing to  :nono:), have you done(/had done for you) any divination on this?
Divination and omens are the clearest way to get messages from the Gods, and having someone else give you a reading without pointing them in a direction ("Why am I feeling distant from the Gods?" instead of "Why do the Gods want me working with Someone else?" or "I feel Someone is reaching out to me, is this true?" instead of "When do I start learning ceremonial magic to work with So-n-So?") can be the biggest ally against confirmation bias. I cannot recommend it enough.
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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 02:03:24 PM »

I think you missed the point DS was trying to make.

If anyone tries hard enough, they can connect any event, tragedy, bit of good or bad luck, or even an argument with a family member or friend with deity, angels, or anything else "supernatural" in nature.

And when someone chooses to see connections that may not be there, and decides to attempt to connect with any being not of our realm, they open themselves up to other entities who may pretend to be what they are looking for ... and frequently the results are very, very bad.

From what you've posted in this thread, it appears to us that you are attempting to make connections that likely do not exist.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 04:02:13 PM »

Not to sound like a nag (but I'm totally willing to  :nono:), have you done(/had done for you) any divination on this?
Divination and omens are the clearest way to get messages from the Gods, and having someone else give you a reading without pointing them in a direction ("Why am I feeling distant from the Gods?" instead of "Why do the Gods want me working with Someone else?" or "I feel Someone is reaching out to me, is this true?" instead of "When do I start learning ceremonial magic to work with So-n-So?") can be the biggest ally against confirmation bias. I cannot recommend it enough.

I can't...I have a house full of Christians and Atheists who would think I'm crazy if I hired someone to help me with divination... :/
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2015, 04:04:33 PM »

I think you missed the point DS was trying to make.

If anyone tries hard enough, they can connect any event, tragedy, bit of good or bad luck, or even an argument with a family member or friend with deity, angels, or anything else "supernatural" in nature.

And when someone chooses to see connections that may not be there, and decides to attempt to connect with any being not of our realm, they open themselves up to other entities who may pretend to be what they are looking for ... and frequently the results are very, very bad.

From what you've posted in this thread, it appears to us that you are attempting to make connections that likely do not exist.

Well, I'm not gonna insist that its 100% or anything, I'm not some gullible idiot. I'm just saying that it's a possible theory, thats all.
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Crystal Dragon

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 01:57:08 AM »

I'm just saying that it's a possible theory, thats all.

But how probable?  No where near as probable as other possible theories.  ;)
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2015, 05:49:20 AM »

I'm just saying that it's a possible theory, thats all.

But how probable?  No where near as probable as other possible theories.  ;)

And pray tell, what are these "other theories"? Why do you suppose that I happen to feel drawn to Samael, when I usually hold disdain for angels? Why do the gods seem to be answering me less and less? How can those two things not be connected?

So sue me for trying to come up with an explanation...but if its so improbable, lets hear yours.
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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2015, 03:09:08 PM »

I don't see the need for snarkiness.  Regardless, since you've asked ...

And pray tell, what are these "other theories"?

The most obvious would be that it's one or more of your ancestors who's looking out for the family.  With regard to Samael, it's much more likely that there is some other entity who's attention you've attracted who is using his persona in an attempt to draw you in.


Why do you suppose that I happen to feel drawn to Samael, when I usually hold disdain for angels?

Whether or not Samael was once an angel is irrelevant ... I've been graced by the presence of an angel several times and the energy of a being like Samael is in no way angelic.  Your "disdain" for angels may be why whatever being this actually is chose to use that name to get your attention.  Why it wants your attention I can't say.  Perhaps recent thoughts or actions on your part have attracted its attention and it wants to "play".


Why do the gods seem to be answering me less and less?

Only you and your gods can say for sure.  Perhaps you've spent too much time asking them to prove that they are there and are listening?  Maybe the manner in which you deal with them is offensive to them?  I have no insight into your situation or how you deal with deity but your posts in this thread suggest that you may be approaching them in a manner that they take issue with.  Experience has shown me that gods and other benevolent energetic beings do not appreciate being treated like a parent whose child is pestering them to make sure they're still listening.


How can those two things not be connected?

Oh, they are connected ... just maybe not in the manner that you want them to be connected.  Instead of asking/expecting deity (or other energetic beings) to give you the answers, perhaps you should seek the answers within yourself first.  That may be what the gods are expecting you to do.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2015, 05:00:39 PM »

I don't see the need for snarkiness.  Regardless, since you've asked ...

And pray tell, what are these "other theories"?

The most obvious would be that it's one or more of your ancestors who's looking out for the family.  With regard to Samael, it's much more likely that there is some other entity who's attention you've attracted who is using his persona in an attempt to draw you in.


Why do you suppose that I happen to feel drawn to Samael, when I usually hold disdain for angels?

Whether or not Samael was once an angel is irrelevant ... I've been graced by the presence of an angel several times and the energy of a being like Samael is in no way angelic.  Your "disdain" for angels may be why whatever being this actually is chose to use that name to get your attention.  Why it wants your attention I can't say.  Perhaps recent thoughts or actions on your part have attracted its attention and it wants to "play".


Why do the gods seem to be answering me less and less?

Only you and your gods can say for sure.  Perhaps you've spent too much time asking them to prove that they are there and are listening?  Maybe the manner in which you deal with them is offensive to them?  I have no insight into your situation or how you deal with deity but your posts in this thread suggest that you may be approaching them in a manner that they take issue with.  Experience has shown me that gods and other benevolent energetic beings do not appreciate being treated like a parent whose child is pestering them to make sure they're still listening.


How can those two things not be connected?

Oh, they are connected ... just maybe not in the manner that you want them to be connected.  Instead of asking/expecting deity (or other energetic beings) to give you the answers, perhaps you should seek the answers within yourself first.  That may be what the gods are expecting you to do.

Hmm...well, I suppose its possible that it could have been an ancestor of mine who saved my family...I honestly never thought of that. But is there no chance at all that whoever or whatever is trying to contact me is actually Samael? Why is that so unlikely? You almost sound like you've met him...how else would you know what his energy is like?

Also, I've been careful to be respectful towards my gods when I speak to them. I don't think I've done anything to offend them...and if they are just ignoring me due to being annoyed, why bother? And why let me get led by the nose of an unknown being, if whatever is contacting me really isnt friendly?

The reason I hold disdain for angels is a personal opinion, one of which could change given due reasoning. I gave Yahweh and his angels plenty of chances to earn my respect or, at the very least, gratitude, but they have never taken those chances. Which is one of the reasons why I was so open with the idea of giving Samael a chance to speak with me, in the hopes of changing my opinion of them.
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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2015, 07:00:03 PM »

Hmm...well, I suppose its possible that it could have been an ancestor of mine who saved my family...I honestly never thought of that.

I find that odd being said by someone who follows a path known for honoring their ancestors.


But is there no chance at all that whoever or whatever is trying to contact me is actually Samael?

There is always a chance ... the probability is low enough to be so close to zero though, so very unlikely.


Why is that so unlikely?

Because beings of this sort rarely even notice humans, let alone make the time or effort to interact with them.


You almost sound like you've met him...how else would you know what his energy is like?

One does not have to "meet" another to get a sense of their energy.  There are plenty of energetic connections to the name alone for me to sense what is there.


Also, I've been careful to be respectful towards my gods when I speak to them. I don't think I've done anything to offend them...and if they are just ignoring me due to being annoyed, why bother?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here but it seems to me that this is one of those things that you need to figure out on your own.


And why let me get led by the nose of an unknown being, if whatever is contacting me really isnt friendly?

Why presume that whatever gods you choose to follow are responsible for keeping you safe?  We each have free will and most of the gods will not interfere if we choose to act irrationally, stupidly, or foolishly.  It is ultimately your choice to connect with whom or whatever you choose.  But all connections have a cost ... some greater than others.  Those who've responded in this thread urging caution do so from personal experience and in an attempt to spur enough rational thought on your part to allow you to make a better choice and (hopefully) set boundaries before you get to a point of being in over your head.


The reason I hold disdain for angels is a personal opinion, one of which could change given due reasoning. I gave Yahweh and his angels plenty of chances to earn my respect or, at the very least, gratitude, but they have never taken those chances. Which is one of the reasons why I was so open with the idea of giving Samael a chance to speak with me, in the hopes of changing my opinion of them.

This, especially the bolded portion is exactly what I was speaking of when I mentioned how you may be treating your deity.  Until you change this, your dealings with these beings is likely to not change much.

BTW ... angels are not solely a Christian concept and many would be offended by the assumption.
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dragonspring

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2015, 07:07:36 PM »

I do not know if CD has had any experience with Samael, but I have.  In my experience, his energy is that of leashed destruction and is quite heavy with a sexual undertone.  I do not believe it is his nature to contact humans - frankly, he just doesn't hold us in that much regard.  He will sometimes tolerate us but it I think it is a risky proposition to count on his continued tolerance.  I thought it was interesting that you immediately discounted his relationship with Lilith because I am quite sure that they are intimately connected.

In light of my experience, I do believe that it is some other entity that has caught your attention and if they are playing Samael to draw you in, I would not trust them.

I am also somewhat surprised that you didn't even consider the Ancestors.  Have you been honoring them in your rites with the Aesir?  If not, that might be offensive particularly to Odin and Heimdallr.  Both of these deities are considered to be ancestral gods according to the lore. 
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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2015, 07:15:13 PM »

I have a direct connection with Lilith, as does DS. Samael is her other half. This entity is not Samael. He deigns to even notice humans. He is a cosmic force, not an entity that is connected to our Earth.

Your protector, if indeed there is one, is a Disir, an ancestor who watches over your family line.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 03:29:48 PM »

I do not know if CD has had any experience with Samael, but I have.  In my experience, his energy is that of leashed destruction and is quite heavy with a sexual undertone.  I do not believe it is his nature to contact humans - frankly, he just doesn't hold us in that much regard.  He will sometimes tolerate us but it I think it is a risky proposition to count on his continued tolerance.  I thought it was interesting that you immediately discounted his relationship with Lilith because I am quite sure that they are intimately connected.

In light of my experience, I do believe that it is some other entity that has caught your attention and if they are playing Samael to draw you in, I would not trust them.

I am also somewhat surprised that you didn't even consider the Ancestors.  Have you been honoring them in your rites with the Aesir?  If not, that might be offensive particularly to Odin and Heimdallr.  Both of these deities are considered to be ancestral gods according to the lore.

To be honest? No...not as often as I should...

I took some time away from the forums to think for a few days, and you know what? I found out that your right. As soon as I cut my connection with "Samael", the gods began interacting with me again.

Although, what you said about the need to honor my ancestors more is quite true. I shall remember to honor them much more in the future, just as I do my gods.

Thank you for the help, everyone.

On a side note; when did I say anything about discounting Lilith's connection to Samael? She's his consort, confirmed by many, if not most, Abrahamic texts (that include Samael in their lore) that Samael had a child with her. Discounting her connection with Samael would be like denying a connection between Zeus and Hera; it just can't be sensibly done.
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SonOfStorms

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Re: I'm so confused...
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 03:31:23 PM »

P.S. Sorry for being a total @sshole...I was under a lot of stress, and I got kind of...bitchy. ^^;
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